Uniform Inspection By Commissioners

[Austinole]

As a unit leader, our UC has never done one but I've thought about asking her to do it. It would add a little formality to it, IMO.

 

As a unit commissioner, I've never asked or told my units I was going to perform an inspection. I do take note of how many are in uniform to fill out the UVTS each month.

[johnponz]

I am currently the ADC. Prior to that was a UC. That being said, Uniform inspections, and generally the correct wear of the uniform do technically fall under the job description of the commissioner corps. So technically, you could say we are the "uniform police."

 

That is why I am a little taken aback by Basement Dweller's response to the UC. The UC probably thought he was doing his job, the way that he had been trained, and then to be told to leave and not come back for something that he thought was his job seems a little extreme to me. I believe coaching or in an extreme case reassignment by the DC might have been in order. There is proper protocol to follow, and it seems that you practiced "self help." No wonder you do not get cooperation from the district when you treat their volunteers in such a way.

 

That being said, I would tread very lightly when doing any uniform inspections (I have never done one) and can see many more down sides than up sides. I would tell any UC that this should be the last thing on their list of responsibilites to be concerned about. I like my full uniform, but many people do not feel the same way, and judging from these boards, other boards, and real life interactions Scouters are very passionate about the uniform topic and it causes more problems than it is probably worth.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Tampa Turtle]

We had a pretty good UC and had no problems the last few years with the Pack. He kinda just stood there and only made comments to the CM later. All the DL's helped do the inspection. We made gentle corrections (hat straight, tuck in shirt, let me show you how to do the kerchief) and long as praise and encouragement. The little ones are really proud of the uniform so you don't want to be a harda$$ with the cubbies.

[moosetracker]

Well I think Basement probably felt that worring about uniforms was probably the least of his worries.. Or like me did not know that uniforms would even be a UC duty.. But, yes, the nicest possible outlook on the event was that the UC needed retraining..

 

I don't know if Basement had a history with this UC or not.. But, I do get a sense that a good relationship between UC and CM had yet to form.. Which should have been the first order of buisness.. Then seeing if he could offer friendly, helpful suggestions the second.. But, instead without these two things esablished he showed up for a "surprise" military style uniform inspection..

 

Sort of like I am running things, and you better follow my orders, style.. Not the best way to introduce yourself (or continue an attempting to form a good relationship)

 

Policy sounds that the UC should be invited by the unit, and the unit should set the tone for how the Uniform inspection will be conducted (if at all).. The UC should be respectful of whatever the unit decides..

 

If not invited, he can do the personal eyeball check, and friendly helpful comment to CM, but that should be it.

[johnponz]

Moosetracker, I agree with you. However some people take what they learn in training , and apply it in a way that it is not intended.

 

I just believe that Basement over reacted in summarily dismissing a volunteer who probably thought he was doing what he was supposed to do. If you look at the Commissioner's Field Manual, it is pretty clear the commissioners are charged with conducting these inspections, and an inexperienced one may place an over importance on that instruction. Commissioner is really one of the hardest jobs in Scouting if one does it correctly, and it takes a lot of experience to learn the right way to do the job.

 

There would have been better ways for both of these individuals to handle the situation, and I remind everyone that we cannot always control others' behavior, but are responsible to control our own.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Basementdweller]

moose you already know the answer to the question.......

 

We had never had a Unit Commisioner.....This guy shows up out of the blue and is wondering around the CO in a scout uniform....

 

 

 

Ponz...A person who had came in introduced himself and did what a unit commissioner is supposed to do....Evaluate the meeting space, count leaders, adults, evaluate the program and boys.....How about helping with the recharter or program before you belittle my boys.

 

Over reacting.....No I am expected to stand up for my boys, by my parents and leaders.....

 

[infoscouter]

we have a uniform inspection at the beginning of every pack meeting, when the Scouts line up for the opening ceremony. As someone else said - its a gentle thing. "tuck you shirt in", take off the non-scouting hat, etc. It started as a way to encourage a modicum of restraint into the pants issue. (Actually - we were appalled by the Scout who came to a pack meeting wearing purple and white Zubaz http://c-product.images.dreamsretail.com/43-51/43-51686-J.jpg with his uniform shirt). Scouts get a door prize ticket for attending, one for wearing the uniform in a semi-squared away manner, and an extra ticket for a semblance of Scout pants (we're fine with discount store navy blue pants). we don't pick about patch placement - although if something is really out of line we'll have a quiet word with a parent.

 

Until recently, we haven't had a lot of interaction with the Commissioner staff, and so have never had the UC come for this. However, I know most of our Commissioners personally, and the majority would never think to do an inspection without being asked.

[WilVick]

When I was a Cub Scout back in 1966-1969, we had an annual uniform inspection set up by the pack and done as a part of our pack meeting. That inspection was conducted by a couple members of the Ohio State Highway Patrol. I remember feeling a little pride at these guys in their uniforms complimenting us on ours. But the years have passed, and times have changed.

 

I have served as a Unit Commissioner and a District Commissioner and was never asked to perform a uniform inspection. I would have advised my district commissioner staff against it, most vehemently. Somewhere, though, I remember a checkpoint on the recharter application that called for uniform inspection and member inventory. This is a process that can be accomplished in a den meeting as easily as anywhere else. It can be accomplished by the den leader or, better yet, by den chiefs or other members of the brother troop if there is one. Done well, it could be a great retention and bridging tool. Likewise, though, the essential part is the inventory...verifying that the boys and adults are still members, verifying or updating advancement, etc. If you can do the inventory without the inspection, go for it!

 

I place tremendous importance on the uniform but recognize that, in our current economy, parents may not have the money for a complete (BSA definition) uniform. Setting the kids to compare what they have against what others have is wrong on all bases. I know that most wouldn't think about going onto the basebal diamond or football field in jeans, a cap, tennis shoes, and the team shirt, but I also know that many local (not international) leagues issue uniforms or use t-shirts with caps provided by sponsors with little or no out of pocket expense to the family save for registration.

 

As to why the membership and recharter chair taking care of inspection...that would probably be because of that little check box on the charter renewal application.

[moosetracker]

Basement - That's what I thought I recalled, but was not quite sure. My memory, does get rusty. I didn't want to miss state it, seeing you were felt I did not recall accurately your reaction to the uniform inspection..

[Shilue]

As a Unit Commissioner/District Commissioner, I've never performed a Uniform Inspection. I've seen it happen at a Pack I was visiting, done by the Unit leaders. I would NEVER walk in and tell the unit leader that I was there to conduct an inspection. I would only do one if asked to by the leaders. They are in charge of their unit, not the district or the council. That's a common misconception that I've found unit leaders have, that because I'm at the district level, I "out-rank" them. As far as I'm concerned, it's the other way around. I and my staff of commissioners are there to support the unit, not tell them what to do. If any of my unit commissioners were to walk in and tell the unit leader hat they were going to run a uniform inspection, they'd be yanked aside so fast it'd make their head spin. If they are asked to do one, that's fine, but you don't walk in and tell someone what you are going to do to their unit. I don't even assume I get to say anything at a meeting. If I have something I want to talk about, such as Day Camp, I *ask* if I can address the boys.

Having said all that, I think uniform inspections should be done occasionally, because I see some wacky patch placements. I saw a boy this weekend who was wearing a second council strip on his right sleeve. I've seen boys with their bobcat badge on their right pocket flap, or their unit numbers above their council strip. Times like that, the unit leader should do a uniform inspection, take note of the issues, and quietly pull the parent aside and let them know. And it's not just boys, either. I've seen adults with some really bizarre patch placements as well. But a uniform inspection should be done so as to not embarass the boys, and it should be done by the unit leaders, or at their request.

[Eagle92]

Sarcasm on

 

My favorite misplaced patch placement is all the Webelos in their Centennial Uniforms wearing the plastic CS diamond rank holder on their right pockets b/c there it no botton on the left pocket for the plastic diamond to be worn. Say about 90% of the Webelos in uniform like that at district PWD.

 

SARCASM OFF (and the bold is for emphasis)

 

Seriously though, uniform inspections are a traditional role for the UCs to do. BUT INHO there needs to be some things in place prior to doing them.

 

1) UCs need to do their other responsibilies, i.e visiting the units and establishing good working relationships before doing something that can be seen in a very negative light.

 

2)Uniform inspections need to take into account the unit they are inspecting. I know I'm a "Uniform Policeman" and have been told online that I go overboard, or as one individual said down right wrong, overbearing, and intimidating. BUT when I have done uniform inspections AT THE UNIT SETTING, I take into account the socio-economic mix of the youth, newness of the unit and it's leaders, and a variety of other factors.

 

3) ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS FIND SOMETHING TO PRAISE THE SCOUT ABOUT IN PUBLIC, ESPECIALLY CUBS, ABOUT THEIR UNIFORM! Whether it's the the Tiger wearing the vintage 1980s Tiger T-shirt, which IS still an offical uniform BTW, or the scout with just a shirt and necker. YOU MUST BE POSITIVE. If you see something incorrect and easily fixable, courteously ask if it would be OK to fix it for them and tell them about it. If something is not easily fixable, make a COURTEOUS AND FRIENDLY Comment about how the scout can get it fixed later. AGAIN BE POSITIVE, FRIENDLY COURTEOUS, AND PRAISE THE SCOUT, ESPECIALLY CUB SCOUTS ( all caps and bold are for emphasis, not shouting.

 

Now I admit I have stirred up a bit of discussion on another website when I did a uniform inspection and was very strict about it, following the Inspection Sheet and Insignia Guide to the letter. It was a district camporee event organized by the commissioner corps, and I was asked to do it since A) I was impartial with no connections to any troop, and B) they found out I worked in supply part time prior to being a DE. I was told to be that strict b/c in the past the uniform inspection tended to be the tie breaker in the awards process.

 

BUT I was courteous and friendly, telling folks what I saw wrong with their uniforms prior to the actually inspection, and giving them the opportunity to fix any problems prior to it. When issues arose, I was able to show both the scouts and SMs where the uniform regs were, which calmed a lot of folks down, and I didn't force anyone to make fix the uniforms if they didn't want to. We had several folks that didn't want to take the JLT and Philmont Duty to God patches out of the jambo spot on the shirt.

[dg98adams]

As a UC for Cubs, Scouts and Venturers, I have never been asked to do a Uniform inspection, and don't see it as something I would want to do anyway.

 

I don't see a requirement to "count uniformed versus non-uniformed Scouts" on my UVTS entries (I don't call them reports).

 

DG

------------

 

Did the observed program reflect prior planning and adequate preparation?

 

Was the observed activity appropriate to the stated advancement and program objectives for this unit?

 

Was adult (and age-appropriate youth) leadership present during this activity?

 

Did the Scouts appear to enjoy and be engaged with the program activity?

 

Was actual attendance at this activity at or near the number of enrolled youth?

[Jay K]

At a recent Unit Commissioner Basic (all day) training, it was suggested that a Unit Commissioner do Uniform Inspections as a service to the Unit, certainly not as a high-handed "Here I am! Line up!" Theres a concept for Uniform Inspections, JTE, etc. It's encouragement.

"Good for you! You got 17 points! That's great, and I can help you work toward getting EVEN MORE points next time!"

They also told us "how to" hold a charter presentation ceremony.

Jay K

Trained Unit Commissioner

[SeattlePioneer]

Eagle 92 and dg98adams discuss some of the ways to make a uniform inspection a positive program experience.

 

As a Unit Commissioner, I haven't been asked to do a uniform inspection and I wouldn't do one if asked. I wouldn't rely on myself to have the deft touch that would make it a positive experience for boys.

 

I'm 3.5 years into rebuilding a pack that was down to a single boy. I've been turning positions over to new parents and volunteers, and I'm pleased to say they are often doing better at their new jobs than I was able to do.

 

One of the tasks of selecting leaders is to find the best person and the right person to do a job. That probably applies to uniform inspections too. The right person can make a uniform inspection a positive experience for a unit. The wrong person might do lasting damage even with good intentions.

 

I consider myself the wrong person to do that task.

[Cito]

I go to roundtable and half the commissioners would fail a uniform inspection.