Drama at the PWD Starting to Snowball...HELP!!!!

[Basementdweller]

I was program director and never went to camp school......threw the whole thing together in 3 or 4 months..... I was under the guidance of the neighboring districts PD....Met with her once, she gave me a zerox copy of her manual...... that was it. the CD did not go to NCS either.....

 

no big deal....

 

 

The council and district made several thousand dollars....

[Eagle92]

Ok while I was posting some more comments came in so here's the scoop.

 

Our SE is program oriented. He was the one pushing for more Cub Scout programing.He was the one that got the camp we use for day camp in order so that we can use it. And while he is focused on the 3 M's he also know that if there is no program,there will be no scouts. And I have pictures to prove that Hell froze over, and I don't mean the Saint winning the Superbowl in 2010 either, as I got picture of him doing "cheerful service" at the camp. And he has gotten involved in some issues that normally don't get his attention either. But I want to go about it by the book as much as possible.

 

E,

 

To be honest our committee is weak. CORs are not active like they should. Our committees do not meet at the same time, only the chair, and even then they may email a report. And I admit I'm just as guilty of that. There have been an occasion or two that I was "all scouted out" that week with den meeting, council cub scout activities teleconference, council CSDC meeting, and OA Ordeal. I needed to spend some time with the family. Again one of the problems with wearing to many hats.

 

As for going along with the consensus of the committee, agree with you 100% I try to be agreeable and focus what's best for the kids. BUT I do admit, I will raise issues as they arise.

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

What about camp inspection and accreditation?

[Scoutfish]

Eagle92,

 

Don't know if this tells you anything or not , but gona tell you about our camp getting accredited last year:

 

This was the first time I volunteed to work staff at a council event. More specifically, resident camp.

 

I was going to be 1 of the 2 wood craft instructors for the Webelos.

 

WEll, come Saturady morning, we have a quick meeting with PD and he tells us that we are 12 people short of what was expected. But...if we all pull our bootstarps tight, we might just pull it off without anybody noticing.

 

Then says: "Oh yeah, camp inspectors are coming from Va to certify us for camp acreditation.

 

So, instead of being 1 of 2 people who are going to run a woodcraft activity, I end up running 3 woodc raft activities, and two leatherworking activities under a moderate sized shelter.

 

At any given time, I had 4 to 10 packs coming through .

 

Wait...did I mention that the online registration program had hiccup and that over 750 people were registered for a camp designed to accomidate 350 sttendees?

 

So, everytime a group of scouts came through, it seemed like each group wasd getrting bigger and bigger.

IOnstead of instructing the scouts, I actually ended up instructing the unit leaders who ebded up instructing thier own scouts . Had to do this because there was no way I could do it for everybody coming through in the numbers they did.

 

So anyways, at one point, so many people were coming in/ lining up, that I ened up standing on top of one of the picnic tables and yelling "OKAY...EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO DO SOMETHING....YOU HAD BETTER LISTEN UP AND LISTEN GOOD!"

 

Then I gave a speach about what activities we had, how we were short handed, why the leaders and parents would have to help out instead of sit back and watch....

 

So, aroun 1pm, we enjoy a quick 20 minute break that was really supposed to be a 1 hour break...and I see the two camp inspectors walking by. WE nod at each other , say hellow, and they keep on walking by.

 

WEll, that night we had another leaders meeting after the campfire ceremony. The CD and PD were talking about how e passed with flying colors and that we pulled it off even though being short handed.

 

I then said something to the effect that I was glad they came by while I was on break.

 

Then the PD smiled at me and said: "No, we came by while you were standing on top of a picnic table telling everybody to shut up and listen if they wanted to do something fun."

 

Somehow, the fact That Istood up and laid out the law impressed the inspectors. Apparently, too mant activity instructors will let scouts run around and do anything just to keep the peace.

 

So, it may not mean anything, but may show some insight to how inspectors look at things.

[Basementdweller]

We got accredited.... The whole thing was pretty easy, just fill in the blanks on the forms.....

 

the only thing that was said about neither of us attending NCS was we need to go before next year.

[Eagle92]

You folks are gonna laff, but when the inspectors come, I've been the one to walk around camp while the book and all pw stuff was done by the CD. So I have no idea how it's actually done and what they do. I know the guys walking around have not had any problems.

 

As for making money off of us, despite the CD saying "I've never gone over budget until you became PD" in regards to the fact that I went about $4 over budget my first year as PD in 2010, the council has actually budgeted a $200 loss for 2011.And that figure is based upon several years. I was told that last year was the first one we had a surplus( not a large one but one none-the-less), and notice they again have us budgeted at a $200 loss.

 

But I was told that they would close down a camp if standards have not been met, and I've busted butt to see that they were.

[Twocubdad]

Amazing. You're right, E92. Not having camp school-certified camp director and program director is grounds for closing a camp -- that day, not next year.

 

For that to operate without a NCS certified camp director or program director, the visitation team would have to have falsified the camp standards accreditation forms and, at minimum, the professional adviser would have to have looked the other way. The forms specifically say "Check training card:" then ask for the name, age and expiration date from the card. Either they flat-out falsified the forms, or if they left it blank, the folks at the council and region office failed to perform their required reviews.

 

That kinda makes all the advancement minutia we're debating in other threads seem unimportant if a council will knowingly violate a major requirement of camp operation. Wow. (Yeah, I'm on staff at NCS and conduct camp visitations. I'd shut them down.)

 

Beav gave good advice, but here's the strategic problem: the view from the council office is this women has several boxes checked for them is and is running an adequate program -- as far as they are concerned. And thanks to you E92, numbers at day camp are trending up. That she's surley and has a few parents ticked off is small potatoes. Unless you've got some serious YP issues, the district/council is going to do the math and figure this woman solves more problems than she creates.

 

With any luck you'll live longer than her.

[Eagle92]

2Cub,

 

Again my only knowledge of a day camp without 2 NCS people was when the CD died a few weeks before camp( I think it was 2 weeks), and the PD became CD. There was a volunteer PD without a cert. And they were conditionally accredited. I don't know any other details except the PD did go to NCS with me.

 

In regards to numbers, yes the camp numbers are up, and yes we had a surplus last year for the first time in nobody knows. But the pros also know why because I'm the one that drove them crazy in regards getting things done the past two years. It's kinda funny that the staff adviser who has been around for a while can't ID our camp director because they only see each other at inspections for a few minutes.

 

And please do not wish that last statement. Her husband is in and out of the hospital a lot. In fact he was having chest pains at day camp, and ignored them until after camp was over. He was admitted shortly after seeing the doctor. She also has problems, and has been in and out of the hospital herself. In fact I found out why I there was no communication between us last year for a few weeks: she was in the hospital.

 

Worse nightmare is one of them having a heart attack and we don't have an AED at that camp.

[Basementdweller]

Don't know what to tell you?????

 

Heck didn't even know about camp school when I was asked to do it which was I think either March or April had just a couple of months to make it happen. Did the job I was asked to do by the DE, we had 120 scouts and siblings..... Not bad for the first time in 9 years.

 

 

I never saw the inspection sheet, saw the inspectors shook their hands. The DE presented the accredited camp flag to the camp at flag lowering that evening.....

 

Such is the life in my district and council.

 

 

Gee, had the closed the camp that day, guess who would have been the target for all that fury??????

[Nike]

She needs to go.

 

She has become a toxic personality which, ironically, reinforces her indispensibility. No one else will do CS activities with her leaving her holding the bag, which is probably right where she likes to be, in the middle of all the fuss and getting lots of stroking since she gets it all done despite her health issues and no one supporting her.

 

You have four weeks to find someone else. There's some time. If this is your opportunity, get a new volunteer, possibly someone who was unhappy with things last year and doesn't give a flying flip about Cranky Lady or her years' worth of records. And don't worry about making Council any money when everything has to be purchased new because it's in Cranky Lady's garage, and she won't cough it up. Tell Council to get it before X date or you're ordering new stuff.

 

Are you ready, do you have a volunteer, and do you have the support to move someone else into the Cub Activities position, effectively dethroning Cranky Lady? Once she's out, you have to actively keep her out for good.

 

It might actually be good for her health.(This message has been edited by Nike)

[Lisabob]

What Nike said. You do need somebody with a spine who can take the stance Nike outlined, is all.

[Eagle92]

Nike,

 

That's the problem, we have no one lined up. Took severals weeks and two attempts to find my replacement, and I am working behind the scenes helping. Again we are a small district, and only 1/2 the packs participate on the district level.

[JoeBob]

Can anyone here confirm that an operating CS DC has ever been shut down by BSA inspectors?

 

"Hey Mrs. Mom. This eMail is to alert you that nobody will be at CSDC tomorrow morning to unload Little John. Official inspectors from National BSA shut down our camp because Mr. Director's paperwork was not in order. Since you paid $75 for five days of camp, and we only delivered two days, we'll refund $45 when we get the money. The fees you paid us have already been spent on supplies. Wanna buy a birdhouse kit? So sorry that you're gonna have to re-arrange your schedule for the rest of the week. Hope you enjoy having Little John at work with you!"

 

Even I can't believe that the higher muckety-mucks would inflict so much damage to the program in order to adhere to the checkboxes of their 'leadership' structure...

Assuming that the program is still good, what value does being 'accredited' add to the boys experience?

[shortridge]

JoeBob,

 

Accreditation depends on a variety of factors - some program and training, some health and safety, some paperwork. My understanding is that camps that do not meet mandatory standards or don't meet at least 90 percent of the other standards are only "conditionally accredited." Mandatory standards include having a physician in charge of health care; safe drinking water; protection for bad weather; written emergency plans; key staff is properly trained; etc.

 

Camps can be shut down when there is an immediate threat to health and safety - not necessarily if someone doesn't have their paperwork on the correct forms.

 

I couldn't find a current day camp standards list, but here's one from 2008: meritbadge.org/wiki/images/f/fe/2008_Day_Camp_Standards.pdf

 

 

Eagle92: Good luck. Sounds like you're going to need it.

[Jeffrey H]

"The comment of retirement has come up a time or two not only among others, but also herself. Problem is that she won't let go."

 

She may not want to let go because she may not have any other "hobbies" or interests outside of Scouting. Just a guess but that is sometimes the case. She should be dismissed because of behavior unbecoming of a Scout leader. Always being cranky and rude are grounds to find a replacement or just leave the position vacant. We have behavior expectations of our boys and the adult leaders must set the example.

 

I enjoy Scouting, but I do not want to put myself in a situation where I cannot let go. I could easily hand over my CM duties to a capable, enthusiastic leader. Transition/Succession plans are important.

(This message has been edited by Jeffrey H)