Drama at the PWD Starting to Snowball...HELP!!!!

[Eagle92]

We had some drama at the district PWD surprise, surprise. Problem is that it's starting to snowball and may affect all Cub Scout activities because who is involved.

 

Long story short, CS Activity Chair who runs all the CS events, including day camp, was rather rude to both parents and Cubs this past weekend. She was also accused of doing some other things which have not been documented and I won't address them until they are.

 

BUT I personally saw one instance where she was rude to the Cubs at the display table with the cars. I also received emails from 2 individuals about one incident involving her, and heard from others the same thing, and have asked that they write letters about the situation.

 

In a nutshell one CM is worried about losing several of his Tigers because of how they were treated, and if the CM does lose the Tigers, he will not only withdraw his staff application for CSDC, but also not encourage anyone from his pack to attend if the activity chair is also the camp director again.

 

Another leader complained that the chair is always cranky, even after I tried to defuse the situation a bit when the chair left the scene. Again another person with ties to day camp.

 

What really is causing the snowball to grow is the incident involving a Cub from my pack. First he and mom were treated rudely for having the wrong tires. May not seem like a big deal, but the attitude is what caused a lot of anger with mom, trust me

I saw it in the parking lot when she asked me if I had extra tires before I had even parkd the car.

 

Then when it was his turn to race, the chair stopped him from getting his car to race and started berating him, refusing to listen to him and mom. 2 leaders from my pack had to intervene to let him get his car to the track, but he missed one run. No apologies, nothing.

 

Mom is very angry, Committee chair saw allof this and is ticked off enough to A) get the UC invovled, and B) wants to get the DE's boss involved since he is at PDL-1. Again this is my pack which is A) the largest B) supplies the most kids at camp and C) supplies the most staff to run day camp.

 

We've had problems with her in the past as you may have read. A lot of folks do not want to work with her, nor attend events run by her. Day Camp attendance has increased b/c I have served as an intermediary between her and staff, and folks deal more with me than her. In fact several staffer have point blank told me, that they will only deal with me.

 

But now I've stepped back to be the Tiger partner for middle son. We have a new PD, but I think he is about to get overwhelmed. He knows some of what happened this weekend, and suggested that we counsel her and move on since we need to focus on day camp and at this point need her to operate.

 

My concern is the counseling won't help, and it will devastate the day camp program. Discussions with her have occured in the past, I did one of them as a DE 14 years ago, and it seems like it makes a short term change, but nothing long term.

 

As for replacing her, no one feels comfortable stepping up to the plate because she has personally taken over all CS activities and does not delegate or share information. One example is the day camp book; after almost 3 years of working on CSDC stuff, I have yet to get a copy of all the information she has b/c she refuses to lend it out or even make copies, and I have offered to pay her to make the copies for me.

 

OK thoughts, comments, critiques, EVERYTHING, as I am trying to keep all my options open and trying to see all the possibilities that can occur. As I said the new PD opened my eyes to one possibility that I over looked b/c I've gotten too involved in the matter. And that too may be a problem as I hate seeing Cub getting hurt b/c of a leaders attitude and actions.

 

Thanks in advance and sorry for the rant.

[fred8033]

I read too quickly. Eagle92 raised good point. My comments are removed.(This message has been edited by fred8033)(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[Eagle92]

Fred,

 

As I stated, the purpose of this post is to get all possible variables and consequences to "Be Prepared." This issue has been with me since Saturday and I kinda have tunnel vision on the matter. Ditto with the district. Also I admit was good to get it off the chest since the wife is sick and tired of hearing about this person (And she has heard about the activity chair since BEFORE we got married).

 

As a former DE I kow what he will say when he gets back from PDL-1 Not going to spoil it yet.

 

Although on the district committee, I haven't worked with the district chair much. But I know the district commissioner, and know he is now involved b/c our unit commissioner is involved. I'm actually surprised I haven't gotten an email from him yet as he is my boss as well since I am also a commissioner.

 

Again all possible actions and consequences.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmm...

 

Don't make strategic decisions based on tactical problems.

 

For the longer term, yeh want to have a succession strategy for this woman that brings more people into the support roles in the district, and perhaps, if she or others can't work with that, to move her along. That's stuff like recruiting a new camp director for next year, or decidin' yeh might like to have a joint PWD with a nearby district as a way of gently movin' her out next year.

 

The goal is smooth, long term transition, so that yeh find a (more limited) role that she can contribute to, and give others the opportunity to contribute as well. Particularly recruitin' others for some of the more customer-facing roles. Someone should be workin' on that.

 

For the shorter term, yeh just need to put out the fire. You said that she responds OK in the short term to correction, so I'd get someone yeh think she'll listen to to go ahead and do that. Get her to reign in, perhaps send a few apology notes. Then there should be support for the camp program so she can do the organizing she does best and other people can handle the interfacing with customers. Assure folks quietly that there will be "heavy involvement" from some other people that they know and trust in camp this year, so that the experience for the boys will be protected.

 

That'd at least be my rough notion of how to proceed if yeh were the DC. Not knowin' anybody, I could be very far off-base.

 

Oh, yah, and consider "accidentally" burnin' all the PWD tracks in this year's camp bonfire.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

Hey that CM sounds like my kinda guy.......so did the cranky lady have her beads on??????

 

 

Eagle..............Sorry for your issues....

 

While it is easy to recruit leaders from your home unit, I have found it to be bad practice. You will burn them out, the other Packs need to buy into the activities as well.

 

Sounds like the district volunteer was having a bad day.....If she is like that all the time it might just be time for her to retire.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Everyone please keep it coming.

 

Beav,

 

Thank you, something I have not considered in regards to strategic v. tactical. Sometimes the fires are so hot you can't see past the flames and distortions.

 

The concern I have about limiting her role is that she always finds a way to come back. We actually had someone doing CS activities, and she would not cooperate with them and the person gave up.

 

She and her family do have health issues that raised some concerns, so the old DE went looking for a camp director to replace her. We found one, but when the potential CD got no cooperation from her, the potential CD just gave up and quit. Luckily the DE was NCS certified and was the PD that summer.

 

I know she asked to be CS RT commissioner again, and I'm glad I was asked to to that job.

 

Maybe a volunteer can get more done than the DE can?

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

Nope she hasn't gone through WB and won't Unless a cabin is involved like NCS, she doesn't camp anymore.

 

Agree with you 110% on recruiting from home unit. Problem is we are so small a district, and about 1/2 the active Packs do not participate on the district level. Partly b/c we have not had an active CS RT to get info out, partly b/c of teh activity chair. I'm working on the RT part though.

 

Unfortunately she's like that a good bit of the time. To quote one parent this weekend "She's always cranky." The comment of retirement has come up a time or two not only among others, but also herself. Problem is that she won't let go.

 

I know letting go is hard, heck I am having problems letting go of CSDC esp with all this malarkey going on. But I it seem like every time I step back a bit, I get dragged back in by someone or something. I guess that's part of the problem of being a volunteer in the district that you used to be a pro in: everyone remembers you.

[Basementdweller]

Eagle, has anyone reached out to the other packs?????

 

a phone call is sometime is all it takes......but ya know that.

 

Cranky volunteer, needs to change roles to one with less new scout/parent exposure.

 

 

Getting info out.....Has anyone tried an email newsletter or district google group or facebook page???? This works great for cub family's because most are young and very engaged with technology. Roundtable stinks......the same program over and over and over again....

 

 

Far as putting your fires out.....One volunteer being rude does not make an entire tiger den quit....If it does then the parents were simply looking for an excuse.

 

If you want to try to placate everyone, then cranky lady should be moved to a different job or asked to resign.....DE or DC should apologize to the CM or at the Packs Pack meeting...

 

I am guessing winning in this situation might be minimizing the collateral damage.

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[CalicoPenn]

It's February - CSDC isn't in two weeks. Still plenty of time to make sure it gets off the ground.

 

It's time for her to retire - now. Either she goes voluntarily after being given a chance to retire gracefully, or she is told point blank that her services to the District are appreciated but no longer neeed - effective immediately, and that she will turn over all records, supplies and materials belonging to the District. Then you move on.

 

A simple call from the COR to the District Chairman stating that the women is to be removed from the position or the Pack will no longer support the District by attending any activity, providing any leadership, and will no longer allow FOS presentations will make that process move really quickly - you just have to make sure the District Chairman knows it isn't a bluff.

 

Or is there some other reason why this one woman has the entire lot of the folks in District positions afraid to take this step?

[Scoutfish]

THis is simpler than it sounds. Everything you told us...put it in a letter to the SE, along with thoe stuff written down by others.

 

I do know what will catch the SE's eye quicker than anything else:

 

Scouts dropping out from units/ BSA and not attending czmp anymore..

 

I bet the SE will respond quickly ( via the DE) to the thought of losing $$$.

 

Anad, it's not personal towards the CS Activity Chair.

 

It's a simple concept that keeps me focused every time we plan a campout, event, activity:

 

It's for the boys. It's for the boys, not the adults. We need to plan for, plan around, and make it about the boys. If we lose the boys, we have nothing and we might as well shut down now.

 

And that's where this is right now: You are at the point, you are not only going to lose some boys, but lose alot of adult volunteers which ( due to lack of activities and volunteers) will cause you to lose more boys.

 

Take the CS Activities chair aside, and tell her thanks for her time and service, but in the interest of the boys, it's time that she step down or be steeped down.

 

Sure, you may not have her books and plans, but an event of polite, fun, chaos will still go over 100 times better than organized event of spite, hateful remarks and hurt feelings.

 

 

It's for the boys.

[packsaddle]

Scoutfish, you might want to review Beavah's nice little guide to who to complain to and when to do it.

[Basementdweller]

maybe your SE is more responsive than ours...... but in my opinion it will get put in file 13....

 

The SE simply won't care about unit issues and it is basically a unit issue.

 

 

The SE's main job is fund raising, going out rubbing elbows with the local business owners/operators to secure next years funding. Basically raising his pay check for next year. Most make way more than $100k that is a lot of FOS donations......

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I say the SE because this woman is going to cause leaders (AKA paid registration fees) to drop out.

 

When those leaders drop out, they will take their own scouts( AKA paid registration fees) with trhem too.

 

Now, with a smaller membership number, plus no leaders who actually stood up to volunteer to be DL's ADL's, etc... you are going to lose more scouts ( AKA paid registrations) because there is nobody to lead meetings or come up with activities. There will be no leadership ergo: no program.

 

So now a uint will basically fold. DE will not be happy about his district numbers or $$$$ numbers.

 

Friends talk to friends, neighbors gospi with nieghbors. Parents own, are related to, or friends with local buisnesses and civic groups. hearing that a district or council is pushing scouts away by lack of action can and will hurt donations / FOS funds.

 

The SE - who's main job is fund raising, going out rubbing elbows with the local business owners/operators to secure next years funding. Basically raising his pay check for next year - will feel the problem even if he does not personally care about a CSAC hurting a scouts feelings.

 

No, this isn't really the kinda thing you would bring to an SE, but I bet you if you do bring it to him...and he sees the financial impact that could result......he'll see that something gets done quick.

 

 

[Eamonn]

As of course you are aware sending someone to NCS isn't cheap.

When does the certification run out for this person?

 

How well run /organized is the District Committee?

How involved is your COR?

I'm kinda guessing that you know already how to do things by the book.

That is you and anyone else from your unit that feels upset should contact the COR and the COR should waddle off to the next District Committee meeting.

The District Committee will then decide what action (If any.) That they want to take or not take.

Then it's up to you and the others to decide what you are going to do. Or not do!

 

Of course not all District Committees are that strong or do things by the book.

Very often things like this end up just being dealt with by the Key 3.

But either way once you report it, be it by having the COR attend the District Meeting or by you talking with the members of the key 3. You have done your bit. Allow them to do their's.

It might be that you might not like what they do or don't do!

Then as a person you decide to support or not support the District.

But as a member of the District Committee?

You either quit the committee or do the right thing and go with what ever it is they decide.

Wearing too many hats can have its drawbacks.

As District Chair I at times was part of decisions that upset some people, while at the same time made other people happy. I however did expect members of the committee to go along with the decisions made by the committee. Even if they didn't agree.

It comes down to loyalty.

They can argue for one side or the other, but once the committee has decided, committee members are honor bound to go along with the committee.

You really need for th COR to step in.

Ea.

[Eagle92]

Folks please keep it coming. With over 15 years involvement, as you can imagine there is a lot of backstory that is way to long. I'll answer one at at time

 

Base,

 

I'm the new CS RT commissioenr, so I'm now reaching out to the other packs. I have gotten some replys back and some have not called back. I'll be making calls this week about RT next week. As stated she has had roles changed, but somehow always gets back to the activities. In regards to CSDC, that has been such a low priority that only once had they tried to replace her, and the replacement quit. Shee really needs to focus on being a UC for the units that love her to death, and yes she does have 2 units that think the world of her. And yes want to minimize the collateral damage.

 

CP,

 

Yes we got time to get day camp ready, but we got less than 4 weeks to get a new CD because of when our area has NCS. Getting supplies may be a challenge for several reasons. One is that she will ignore requests for copies of the records. Another is that in regards to supplies there is no inventory of what she has. Don't ask, I know and I have tried to get an inventory prior to camp, and when I tried to inventory stuff after camp this year, she didn't have the time to wright down what she has. Essentially it was a race between me and her to collect the supplies that was used for camp. She was not happy one bit as a bunch of supplies I purchased for camp I collected as soon as possible and am storing in my shed for this year. But with her not having an inventory, some supplies that were missing when I picked them up from her the week before camp and then showing up at orientation, after I bought replacements, it wa frustrating.

 

As for the reason why she has so much power it is very simple. For whatever reason, the focus has been on Boy Scouts for so long, no one on the district committee, except her, really cared about Cub Scouts. So no one was really concerned about her fiefdom. Unfortunately things change slowly in this area, but some progress has been made, and Cubs are starting to get a bigger focus. But there are still only 2 Cub leaders on the committee, her and me, and I do not know if I'm still ont he committee as I'm now a commissioner.

 

She has run off some folks who were interested in working with her. And some folks have basically told her to bugger off when they ran specific activities that fell under her.

But as they move out....

 

So the problem is no one knows who to replace her with.

 

'Fish

 

Ok you figured it out. Except not the SE. Usually the SE won't get involved,at least in my experience, until all else fail. Getting info together and going to the district committee about it.

 

You are so correct IT'S FOR THE BOYS. I remember a time when she did focus on the boys. But for whatever reason it seems that has changed.

 

And I am starting to honestly believe what some have told me: she is the reason for all of out Cub problems, i.e lack of activities, organization, and volunteers.

 

As for the chaos You are so right. I did a good bit of the work the past two years. I made mistakes, screwed up, etc etc. BUT the kids had a blast, adn that is the whole point.

 

And to be honest, I snuck a peek at the book when she wasn't around, a lot of filler. While it would be somewhat time consuming to "reinvent the wheel," it isn't rocket science.

 

All

 

Please keep it coming.

 

REVISED QUESTION:

 

Has anyone been involved with a day camp where there was no PD? The only case I know of was one where the CD died a few weeks before camp started, and they were conditionally accredited b/c of the circumstances.

 

Thanks and keep it coming