Once more onto the breeches! PWD is upon us

[momof2cubs]

Ok, I don't really want to re-hash all over again every argument we've ever had about PWD cars. My question is: what can you (or should you) do at impound to ensure that it is really the boys that are building (mostly) the cars?

 

We do little beyond weighting and measuring. What about you? Do you ask the boys questions? Do you thoroughly examine the car? Do you inspect wheels, axls, etc?

[Scoutfish]

Good luck with that.

 

We have boys in our pack who are very talented. You could give them a raw egg, a handfull of sawdust, a pocketknife and chunk of plastic and they could make a PWD car that looks like it was a laser engineered car straight from NASA.

 

On the other hand, we have dad's who could buy a PWD that was already cut out, clear coated, assembled and weighted and only needed paint, and it would come to the Pine wood Derby looking like a

three-wheeled dog's chew toy.

 

I always make sure my son does at least 50% of all work. He usually does more in most things anyways, but 50% is the minimum bar.

 

So I am pretty good with wood and building things as is he. Not all other people have that ability or talent.

 

So the question is,

 

If the car looks great: Did a talent scout do most of the work as compared to a parent doing most of the work?

 

If the car loks bad: Did the scout do most of the work, or was it a parent without the talent, or proper tools or creativity?

 

One thing we did do ourselves is allow the dads to have a Dad's race after the PWD is over. They collect money and the winner gets half the pot. They then donate the other half to the pack , the school, a local chaity or whatever they choose.

 

But we make it clear, that is something they are doing. It's NOT a pack function.

 

But the point is, the over competative dad's end up letting Jr pretty much do whatever and however he wants to build his own car because over competative dad is busy spending 30 hours a week designing, testing and tuning his own car.

[momof2cubs]

We started doing what an adult class last year. There wasn't as much participation as I would have expected, but I think that might change as it become more of a tradition. We hoped (as you did I think) that if the dads were busy building their own car, they will let their sons build their own as well. It didn't have quite that effect. I know a dad where it was beyond obvious that he built his sons' cars. And yes I said SONS' carS. He has THREE boys in the pack and he build all of them. It was VERY obvious if you knew his sons that there was NO way they built those cars.

 

For toots and giggles, I am building a car this year. (This message has been edited by momof2cubs)

[Scoutfish]

Tell you a true and amazing story.

 

A few years ago, we had a Tiger Cub make his own car. His mom was single. I don't know if it was divorce, death, out of wedlock, deadbeat, etc... He just didn't have a dad.

 

So the mom and the boy take turns with a coping saw because they didn't want to use the scroll saw we had at our PWD workshop.

 

The boy put the wheels on the nails, slid the nails into the wood and took the car home.

 

Come the day of the PWD, he presents his car for inspection:

 

It has been colored with magic marker. Lot of magic marker. Thius car looked fuzzy because of the amount of magic marker he used on thsi car. Must have gained at least 2 ounces just from te ink.

 

Every nail was inserted to a different depth, no glue on the nails, no graphite on the axels.

No weights added either. They just took it home as it was at the workshop and colored it.

 

So we gave alot of suggestions to help him out. Had DL push his axels in evenly and at a good spacing. Gave the boy a tube of graphite and told him to lune the axels.

 

We told him to tape a few quarters to the car too.

 

So it passes inspection at a hair under 4 ounces.

 

We felt bad too , knowing how bad this car was going to run.

 

 

 

This Tiger scout and his mom were very appreciative of our help and efforts.

 

They appreciated it so much, that when the scout recieved his 1st place trophy for his rank, he thanked us repeatedly!

 

If I was a betting man, I would have lost money that day!

 

[momof2cubs]

Ha ha ha ha!!! Yes sometimes those underdogs DO surprise you!

[IM_Kathy]

it also really depends on the boy... my son has (still at 16) terrible small motor skills. was always fun going to parent/teacher conferences asking "other than his handwriting what does he need to work on?" so all through those grades using a saw of any sort was out of the question... we were just impressed when he would sit down and be able to draw out what he wanted his care to look like - and those took several drafts. then he would take his block and his drawing to his uncles and learn how to cut, but it was his uncle doing the cutting. the sanding and painting were handed off to my son. so even if he left his uncles with a perfectly cut car doesn't mean it turned out perfect. but he learned... he had fun... and that was the point. we pushed his abilities past their limits, but not so much that he would be in danger of hurting himself.

 

worst I saw was a boy whose parent's were seperated and he was waiting at weigh ins for his dad and wanted to see what his car looked liked - the boy did nothing with it but turn it in.

 

if you do an award for design I think it's important for the judges to know which are obviously parent made rather than boy made. and also for judges to let boys know ahead of time how they will be judging. for years we had judges that went with originality, but then 1 year we had a judge that went with ones that looked most like an actual car which really threw off those boys that went with off the wall ideas.

[BluejacketScouter]

One thing you could try, is having a "pit night" Pack Meeting where the boys and parents are working on the cars together. We bring in a stack of pencils and patterns. The boys get to pick the shape of their car and transfer it to the wood. We have someone bring in a bandsaw, and there's a line waiting to have their cars cut out for those who want. A vise and coping saws for those who want to try their own. A sanding table. A painting table. A few experienced hands roaming around and offering suggestions.

 

Those boys who do not have a parent attending, still go home with a shaped, sanded and (maybe) painted car where the boy has done most of (if not all) of the work themselves.

 

We do this around 2-3 weeks before the race. The week before the race, we'll bring in the scale and let cars be weighed and maybe help attach wheels, as needed.

 

We also do an open class for adults and/or siblings.(This message has been edited by BluejacketScouter)

[Scoutfish]

One cool trend I am noticing with our pack is that the boys are more interested in the different designs than they are about winning.Most would rather have a cool car than worry about winning.

 

Yeah, they still like winning, but real status is acheived by "car coolness".

[frankpalazzi]

Take the "car coolness" a step further, and reward the boys for it--All the boys! I've mentioned this before a few years ago, but here's what our pack does: We find something unique about each car and give them a professional looking award certificate for it! Examples can be: Best use of stickers, Most Orange, Most Sportsmanlike car (boy has sports team logos all over car), etc., you get the idea. The boys love it, and it doesn't matter if their car stays in one piece during the race, they have been uniquely recognized for something, and have something signed by Akela to go home with! some template ideas http://dyetub.com/certificates/scouting/cub/(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

[ScoutNut]

There is no way to RELIABLY determine which cars are youth made and which are adult made.

 

We made it VERY clear that making the PWD car was to be a joint activity between the Scout and his family. Providing a venue that promotes Family Understanding is one of the reasons that the PWD exists. The level of involvement of adult vs Scout we left up to the family.

 

We check to be sure that our basic rules were followed - size, weight, wheels, axles, etc. Beyond that, unless they volunteer the fact that they purchased a pre-made car (had a family do just that one year), they are good to go.

 

We downplay the win at any cost feeling, and encourage everyone to simply have FUN and practice good sportsmanship.

 

[DeanRx]

#1) Have workshops... get the previous year(s) winners to help run them. Then the "secrets" are out there for everyone. You come take advantage and learn, or you don't, but can't complain about it.

 

#2) If a dad wants to build the kids car, its going to happen. We try to have discussions about "fairness" and kids having hands on time with the wood, but again levels of skill vary greatly in both youth and adults.

 

#3) We always give a trophy for "Scout's Own Vote". No judges, every boy that races can case a vote for their favorite car. Only rule, you can't vote for yourself. You want to win this category, you need not be fast... just better have a Pokemon, Super Mario Bros., or Angry Bird theme on your racer this year

 

#4) We have two categories... ONE - scouts, by the book, 141.75grams, 7 inches max length, etc... and TWO - super unlimited modified. Only scouts can be in group ONE, both scouts and parents, siblings, etc... can be in group TWO. It makes for some great concept cars. One guy showed up with a racer with a 9volt battery and a CPU cooling fan zip tied to the rear for the car. It had a slenoid switch that was held closed by the starting gate pin and when released, the battery wizzed the fan and it FLEW down the track! Best part was when it jumped the stopping area and went out the door of the auditorium and crashing down the hallway! Best derby memory for the whole pack!

 

BOTTOM line - if they have fun doing it together and the kid at least puts some effort into it, then great. I have one dad that owns his own machine shop. His wolf aged boy KNOWS how to run a mini-lathe. How are you supposed to tell the kid he can't machine his axles when it was HIS idea to do so? Is it unfair? maybe. But is it unfair that some boys have dads and others don't? Yup. Does that mean the boys with fathers should not be allowed to have dad help because some of the kids they will race against come from single parent families? Nope. I have ONE kid in the pack and I helped SIX boys cut out car shapes on the scroll saw and sand and polish wheels and axles over the past two weekends.

 

My son is a WEB II - other than helping get the sawblade installed on the scroll saw, he has done the entire car himself, shape, sand, paint polish, tap axle holes with drill press, sand and polish wheels / axles. I have literally not touched his car this year... first time ever. I'm a fairly competitive dad with regards to PWD and we share all our speed secrets. I hope my son smokes the field, but it doesn't really matter - he's already won first place with me and I've told him so. That's what PWD should be.

 

Then again, if he beats the kid who's dad has the machine shop... there will be a HUGE grin on my face

[momof2cubs]

My problem is it sometimes breaks my hearts. You know that boy (yes that one), that you just know put his heart and soul into that car and has so many hopes. I HATE it when he gets beaten by a car made by an adult!

[Basementdweller]

had an argument tonight over .01 ounces yep, 100th of an ounce......the scale flickered from 5.00 to 5.01 and back.... One dad said it was illegal.....I told him he was breathing on it to hard making it over by 100th of an ounce. I picked the car up scratched off a bit of paint on the bottom and put it back on the scale get look it is 5.00 and not changing now.

 

 

 

I hate the pinewood derby, last year had a leader get punched by a parent.

[momof2cubs]

I have a love/hate relationship with it. On one hand, I love the event itself. They boys get really excited and it is a fun event we hold in January when there aren't many fun things going on. But on the other hand, it really does bring out the worst in people, including me.

 

Last year, I was beyond LIVID over obviously-adult-made cars. When you have a Tiger winning every event, and not by a tenth of a second but by a country mile, you know there are shenanigans going on.

[Eagledad]

I must admit it saddens me to read so much distress over the Pinewood Derby event. To some degree, I want to say those of you who consistently bad experiences are doing it wrong. But I also wonder if maybe most of the scouts are having fun and its just distress over the few participants that went over the top.

 

Having two sons, I have planned, ran and monitored my share of races and I cant think of one event where 98 percent of the families didnt leave with smiles on their faces. Through the years I was there, our pack numbered from 80 scouts to 120, so our events are big with several hundred family members attending. In fact, to try and keep the event under an hour and a half, we used two tracks to speed things along.

 

Maybe our success is that its a family event for our pack. While we do have winners and losers, the event is talked about for several weeks as a family fun night.

 

Each scout gets a PW Kit in December for Christmas, but we also have siblings races and a race that any car can race in the unlimited class.

 

We even provide several cars for sibling who didnt build a car but want to race. Usually last years races cars.

 

We also set up a hot dog meal-deal with a chilli hotdog, chips, and coke for only a couple bucks. We have candy, popcorn and baked goods for sale at a very reasonable price as well to fill the stomachs.

 

Its set purposely on Friday night and advertised as a Friday Family Fun Night where everyone in the family is expected comes to eat, race, cheer, sing, laugh and even cry.

 

The tracks are set up so that the scouts and other family participants can sit on the floor right next to the track to watch their car race past by within and arm reach. Then we set up several rolls of chairs along the track as well for the family members who dont want to sit on the floor, but still get a good view of the race. I know a lot of packs dont let anyone near the track for fear of a scout touching the car as it goes by, but sitting close to the action is part of the fun and we found only a couple warnings is all the participants need to keep their hands off the track.

 

While the race goes on, the CM is also leading cheers as each set of cars are being set up for the start. The objective is keep the scouts moving and yelling so that by the end of the night, (about 1 hour 15 minutes) the kids are exhausted and the parents laughing from the fun. Its a great evening.

 

A few secrets that make life a little easier for us is we give the cars to the scouts in December and explain they can use only the parts in the kit.

 

They have to follow the rules in the kits. We found the more rules you add, the more complicated the race gets. Its just easier pushing the simple rules.

 

We check in the cars the night before the race so that we have time to help modify cars that didnt quite make it up to the rules. Usually its adding weight to cars. But we have a few dads excited to help a scout with any car that might need some help.

 

If you can, set up the tracks the evening before so that adults dont have to show up a couple hours early and make it a very long evening. But that depends on your event location.

 

We have two are three pit nights for scouts who needs some adult help. We also give names and numbers in the December news letter of dads who are willing to help any scout with his project. That was set up for scouts of single parent moms, but any scout can call. Surprisingly they dont get many calls.

 

Each car gets to race a minimum of 9 or 10 times, so the scouts watch their car race plenty. My observation is the scouts actually get kind of bored after for five races and get more into the cheers, eating and laughing than the racing. So having the CM entertaining the audience helps.

 

Im not sure what we are doing that is different from your pack, but this can be a fun event for each member of the family to look forward to. Get dads to plan and run the race side and moms to plan and run the concession side. Use the Webelos to take car from the pit area to the start line and let start the cars. Have fun folks.

 

Barry