Fixing a sinking Cub Pack

[moosetracker]

I am the ticket counselor for a lady with a sinking cub pack. (As well as just a district Training Chair)..

 

She is in a Pack that has few kids. And only two Adult leaders. She is the Den Leader of WebsI. The other person is the Cub Master.

 

Webs II - 3 cubs, Cub Master son is in this group and will cross over with his son.

Webs I - 6 cubs, (ladies group)

Bear - 1 cub (parent is doing lone scouting????)

Wolf - 1 cub (parent is doing lone scouting????)

Tiger - 0 cubs (had one, got in fight with Wolf and left).

 

Her ticket is on working to cross her Webs over, prepared for boy scouting by slowly moving them into camping, being more independent from, the adults and doing their own den camping. But she is fearing being the single Adult leader of the group.

 

Her pack has contacted the DE & the DC, for a while (they are "on the list").. But no help so far.

 

We went to her den meeting once.. Found it a strange setup.. Troop & cub scouts all meet in one room.. Large room.. Small Troop, small Pack.. The Troop was doing their own thing.. I saw playing games and organizing for a campout. Small group, but from the little I saw, Webs III The Dens were at tables doing quite work.. We were there for my WB ticket person, who had asked my husband to come in and talk to the boys about starting to organize a campout similar to a patrol.. My husband has a lot of patience, but we are now use to Boy Scouts so he was seeing cross-eyed when leaving, as to the kids attention span Oh! and there were parents sitting around, not getting involved.

 

Well last night at Round Table.. I was cornered by the lady I am ticket counseling for help. She fears having to take over as cub master, and not completing her ticket.. She does want to stay on with the pack when her son crosses over to try to build them back up again.. (She has high hopes and dreams)..

 

So in steps my son, offering to take over as cub master for a brief time Ok, if not done right this sinking ship is going to pull him under.. And probably the rest of our family too.. I already see myself getting involved, to try to get this pack to get their parents to start doing the positions, and hopefully save my son.. Well I am sure it wont be long before husband & fianc are pulled into the quagmire

 

I guess my son being ACM for a pack has learned something about Packs, but me, I know very little, nor does husband.. We have been away too long, memory is rusty and the program has changed..

 

So come up with ideas on a game plan for us guys!!!(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[AlamanceScouter]

I would say the first thing to do is to get the parents of the remaining 8 cubs to step up into leadership positions...I bet there are at least 2 of them willing to work if they are asked. If the Pack is not active then I would work with the parents to plan a real exciting next 4 months for the Scouts.....lots of trips, some camping, etc. Get your Webelos I's and Bears to Webelos Resident Camp this summer. Start setting the stage to recruit new leadership during the next Fall Roundup.

 

Finally, thanks to you and your family for always stepping up to help Scouting in your community. I really enjoy reading your thoughts and advice on Scouting.

[pchadbo]

Moose, I would encourage you and MIB to take a good look at the situation and IF you step in I would very clearly set the expectation of we are here until X date and between now and then the parents need to step up. The most crucial piece of this is the decisions you and MIB have to make: are you willing to run the pack indefinitely? Are you willing top walk away? If you cannot walk away with a good chance of the pack failing after you leave, you may be there for a long time. Be Prepared. Also, you have some good resources within your district, do not be afraid to ask for help.

[packsaddle]

I did bring a pack back from the brink. But my son was in it and I was already a den leader. But other circumstances were different as well. My solution was in recruiting. The program was not a problem, just a big recruiting discrepancy. As an 'outsider' I would advise you to offer advice and ideas, but nothing else.

 

In the case you describe, the pack may be too dysfunctional to save. It actually has MORE boys than mine did when I took it over but from what you describe, I'm not sure it can be saved. Sometimes it's best to just let something die.

[Basementdweller]

There are too many unknowns as to why the Pack is too small.

 

History????

Why only one Wolf and Bear????

Recruiting???? Size of school, boy talks, competing Packs

Program???? Is their one or is it just an academic exercise

 

 

I have posed this question to another Pack leader locally......Is it worth saving?????

 

Moose, I was a den leader for a sinking pack for a year, the SM and I volunteered when no parent stepped up. I enjoyed the boys and their excitement at new scouting activities and style of leadership. But in the end the Pack started looking to us as the leaders not the cubmaster, we kept directing them to the CM. While it helped their retention when the year was up they were in the same boat....No trained den leaders and a huge retention problem. We went over last fall and offered to help again but no interest.

 

 

I find it interesting that as ticket councilor you feel responsible to help this individual. I thought the role was one of guidance verse active participation???? In 16 months I have talked to my ticket councilor once and then it was very

brief......No help or guidance, Oh and still no call from anyone regarding my request to have my ticket signed off. All though our SM came up with an idea.....Go to the next roundtable and in front of the group, box up my binders and scrap books and UPS them to the CD with a note requesting a completion sign off......I find it interesting that he is more worried about it than I am..

[moosetracker]

I was thinking more advisory too.. Come in to help with pep talks and training..

 

 

I will have to check with son, but my feeling is that a good time ending is when the Webs I cross over. At that time this lady is willing that after she crosses her son and the other boys over she wants to stay with the pack and move into CM roll.. But if the Pack has not grown by then 1 wolf & 1 bear & 1 adult leader does not make a pack... I am not even sure how the rechartered mid Dec with a cub master and a den leader, No committee at all???? Do they have paper names or what???

 

I was also thinking of making our stepping in be on condition that we have at least one parent of every boy commit to taking on at least on role or function in the pack, however minor that role is.

 

My son is in his last semester at college and is know to come home with piles and piles of homework and work until the wee hours of the morning on it.. I just cannot see him taking on a Pack that will expect that he does EVERYTHING for them while they sit home and watch television.. Logically I know there is a mix of reasons for parents not stepping in.. From lack of self-confidence, to worry in a pack this needy that if they volunteer they will get dumped on, to a feeling of entitlement.. But, admittedly my fuse is short .. Wish it was longer .. But it is not ..

 

So the best thing would be to go in and put down on the table a set of expectations that we would want from them to see that they are working on their own solution.

 

I have an idea for a recruitment drive, but it would need to start with a volunteer of the cub scouts, one form the Boy scouts.. Then going to the town we live in (next door town) and seeing if we could not drum of interest from their cub/boy scout units to work together on the project.. If we could get 4 adults to work on it, it may be doable.. And the two towns share a high school, so that is already considered by the both communities as some place each town would go to for an event of function..

 

[SeattlePioneer]

I've helped revive two Cub Packs.

 

I've worked 3+ years to revive my latest pack which had one boy when I started. Last night a new Cubmaster took over from me and we had three quality den meetings going on.

 

That pack isn't out of the woods, but they have a reasonable chance of surviving and thriving.

 

There is no reason your Wood Badge person can't make her six Scout Webelos Den a success. Whether the pack survives is a different issue.

 

In my view, the key to the pack surviving is someone doing a quality recruiting program to attract the boys for a Tiger Cub and Wolf Den, and then going from there. That's really something every pack faces every year.

 

The most common reasons packs fail is that they don't do that recruiting job effectively. That's my experience as a district membership chair, anyway.

[moosetracker]

Basement our posts crossed..

 

I don't feel as ticket consilor responsible to help this individual.. I have felt and said in the past that as Training chair if a new pack or struggling pack needed supplemental training that was my responsibility..

 

My son putting his foot in it, and me not wanting him to get sucked dry by a bunch of parent leeches and have his grades drop, or flunk is kindof what has me feeling that I may need to get more involved then some supplemental training..

[Tampa Turtle]

I do not know if your Pack is school, church, or whatever based. Also if you have nearby competing Packs.

 

Never underestimate that most busy parents with young children have NO idea you even exist. Also you need to have high visibility. Wearing uniforms on recruiting day at school (we did that) and at Scout Sunda/Sabbath helps. Doing service projects and getting in the local paper/news generates traffic -- and little boys in uniforms look cute and get press.

 

Also boys need to try to recruit other guys.

[qwazse]

MT - do your District rep thing, and only that. Recruiting night, good idea. give the parents a

List of things you expect them to provide. Brace yourself for the possibility that they wont. On the night, set up a table where the boys do most of the busy work, passing out stuff, showing pictures of activities etc ...

 

Let MIB do his thang. Keep yourself as far away from the management of the Pack possible. If he wants advise from total strangers who act like they know what they're talking about, he knows where to come!

 

Ticket counsel: make sure the goals are not dependent on other folks. I'm in a bind because one of my goals is dependent on three adults getting trained, I'm gonna ask to revise it to "invite every adult in my unit to ttraining". In other words make sure she has five things that she can do, even if other adults don't help.

[Basementdweller]

I am entertained by the fact there is no mention of a unit commissioner.

 

 

I am going to bet that with all of the scouts meeting in one room it is impossible to get anything done.

[moosetracker]

Well my recruiting idea is a little more elaborate then a recruiting night for scouting.. It is more of a Community program awareness day.. A place that has alot of programs for youth (and possibly) for Adults all on one day in one place.. Then let the activities all have their spot to shine.. Karate in that corner, dancers in that corner, guitar players in that corner, scouts in that corner etc. etc..

 

A scout night usually turns up a low number.. But, this would be attractive to parents who have kids who want them involved in something, but don't know what it is.. We may even get the kid interested in guitar playing, who sees the pinewood cars, or camping equipment and ends up wanting to enroll in guitar & cub scouts.. It also allows a place that might introduce older boys who come to see if there is any programs in their community they might be attracted to, but may not go to a "scout night" because of an incorrect image of scouts.. If we include Adult activities, then we are still getting our message out as to who we are and the program we run for Adults who are looking for activities for themselves, but either have kids, or very young kids who will be of age in a few years, or are future parents..

 

I thought of this, when our district started facing the fact that some of the school districts are not allowing anyone promote their programs in their schools.. I thought of the fact that while the BSA is bemoaning how hard it makes it for us to successfully recruit, it is just as hard for the other programs to recruit as well.. So why not find a way to band together and make an event that will intrest alot of people in the community to go to.

 

It means a little more work to promote and organize, and may mean finding another group to help with the organization of it, possibly we may need to figuring out some form of charge if we need to rent the school space or spend for promotion of the event..

[moosetracker]

Basement - again with the cross post.. There was a small mention.. The pack asked for help from the DE & DC (they are on the list), but have seen no help as of yet..

 

Also with the room setup.. Although it is a large room (It is sponsered by a church with a large function hall).. It is just IMO not a good setup.. I only saw one meeting, but the cubs were doing the den work and relatively set up like school, the Troop had the game and then worked on organizing a camping trip, but it seemed adult run..

 

I am sure the small cubs are not what the BS want to be in a room full of, and if you increase the cubs and get them to be fun and active, the BS will really not be happy with the situation.. 15 year old boys do not want to feel like they are enrolled in day care..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[dg98adams]

Adult leaders. She is the Den Leader of WebsI. The other person is the Cub Master.

 

Webs II - 3 cubs, Cub Master son is in this group and will cross over with his son.

Webs I - 6 cubs, (ladies group)

Bear - 1 cub (parent is doing lone scouting????)

Wolf - 1 cub (parent is doing lone scouting????)

Tiger - 0 cubs (had one, got in fight with Wolf and left).

 

This is NOT a Pack and is likely in trouble of not being rechartered or should not have been rechartered. Not surprised it's "on the list".

 

A Pack needs a DL for every level of Cubs in the pack plus CM (who cannot dual role as a DL) and a Comm. Chair. Where are the IH/COR? It's their job to secure appropriate leadership.

 

A Wood Badge ticket based on Webelos Transition, is not going to save the pack.

 

Recruitment of leadership should come before the Cubs getting recruited.. "cart before the horse"...

[Tampa Turtle]

It has been said many a time but in presenting the scout program even the Tigers highlight the excitement of outdoor adventure, campfires, camping, and values. Get the boys excited and the parents reassured. Bring tents and sleeping bags and stuff.