Question about Cub Scout Leader Awards

[robertwilliams]

Earlier today I was looking at the Cub Scout Leader Recognition Awards at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/resources/CSLeaderRecAwards.aspx

 

Do you know if Assistant Den Leaders are eligible for the Webelos Den Leader and the Cub Scout Den Leader awards?

 

Thanks,

Robert

 

[Gary_Miller]

No you have to be registered as the Den Leader to earn those awards.

 

You can how ever earn the Cub Scouter Award.

[Scoutfish]

I'd say call your local council office and speak to the person that knows everything: The registrar!

 

The only reason I say this is because I have seen peole who become DL's, but (through no fault of their own) end up being caught up at work or have situations arise at home that causes them to rely on ther ADL to do at least half of the work if not more.

 

And we know that sometimes, the only difference between a DL and an ADL is title alone.

[Basementdweller]

Scoutfish....

 

The requirement reads....Tenure: Complete one year as a registered Cub Scout den leader...

 

No an assistant den leader cannot earn the award and should not be awarded it. They are eligible to earn the Cub Scouter knot. Most ADL do not met the requirements because they don't attend roundtable or scout university.....or they don't take additional leadership roles.

 

 

Not sure how calling the registrar will do anything....

 

So Scoutfish.....we know nothing of this fellow....lets just pretend his is one of your ADL in the wolf den.......So he calls the registrar and monkeys with your charter and his registration to earn the knot. How would you feel about that????

 

Your like me and we both recognize our leaders and ensure they have received their knots and get recognized at the awards banquet.

 

I think that is some pretty bad advice on an open forum, with people unknown.

[robertwilliams]

Sorry I should have given more context.

 

I'm trying to help develop more adult leadership in our pack. We haven't done the knot thing at all afaik, and I thought it might help give motivation and direction.

 

Additionally I wanted to encourage my ADL. He has gone to Woodbadge (which I haven't yet) and UoS, and will be doing a lot of these knot requirements for his WB ticket.

 

Is there any rule that a den may have only one registered den leader?

 

[dg98adams]

Multiple DL or WL, no problem

(think of more than 1 den at that rank) ... there's nothing specifying a particular den needed, except you need A DL/WDL if you have those Cubs in the Pack.

 

Pretty sure it's 1 CC or CM though.

 

I would encourage signing up as DL's/WDLS over ADL/AWDL if the person is actively involved anyway, for reasons listed above.

 

[Scoutfish]

I hate when I think I posted somethiung, and it didn't take.

 

Basement, The reason I said to check with council was because that, until just recently, they listed all adult leaders as just that: Leaders. They didn't differentiate between ADL's and DL's.

 

Plus as in a situation we had once, the ADL pretty much was the acting DL because the DL was absent more times than he wsa present for meetings. Matter of fact, this is where my scouter career started.

 

There were 3 ADLs, but two of us pretty much ran the whole thing because the DL missed more metings because something always came up at the last minute.

 

 

Let me put it this way: How bad is it when the DL has to go to the ADL's to find out how his own son is coming along in adbvancement?

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

But technically and idealistically: NO. Cannot get Leader award.

 

Can get Scouter award.

[fred8033]

I had the same questions a few years ago and for the same reason.

 

Explicitly, several of our very best den leaders did not qualify. So, I called our council (3rd largest in country) and talked with the director of training and advancement. Her comment was if they are close and they did the work, sign'em off. We discussed the specifics...

 

- One den leader had two round tables and another leader had three but they were trained and doing a great job. She said to sign'em off.

 

- Another den leader was registered as the assistant but pretty much had been a co-leader / leader for most of the tenure of the den. He was not just lurking in the background as a shadow of the DL. She said to sign'em off.

 

I'm glad that was the answer. These people stepped up when no one else would. The last thing I want to do is get overly legalistic with volunteers.

 

So my suggestions...

 

#1 Talk with your council advancement director

#2 Always register ADLs as DLs.

 

And yes I do view adult recognition as very different than youth advancement. One is about youth setting their destiny by fulfilling specific requirements. The other is saying thank you to someone who could easily have done nothing instead. Adult recognition is not a competition. It's about being polite.

(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[SeattlePioneer]

In our district we wouldn't nitpick Assistant Den Leaders. Our Training Chair and District Executive encourages such people to be awarded knots.

 

And I also wouldn't hesitate to have multiple Den Leaders in a den, either.

[dg98adams]

In the Pack I am UC for there a Leader (only ever registered as the CC and followed her son's den from Tiger Parent to Webelos) who I thought was going to earn multiple knots. When I discovered she never registered for any position other than CC, I could not advise the CM to complete the award paperwork. I showed him the Council history for her. 4-1/2 years as the CC.

 

I used this as an example why new registrations are completed when changing from one position to another position within the pack for the rest of the pack leadership (blank stares at first - previous UC was never around).

 

I saw the leader a couple months later now in the Boy Scout Troop her son went to... several Cub Leader knots.... the new clerk at the Scout shop set her up I think.

 

 

[fred8033]

With scouter awards, if there is any flexibility, it should be with the "position" of registration.

 

#1 The CC or membership chair is in control of registration process. Most den leaders and MC's never see a ScoutNET roster or even know who the registrar is.

 

#2 Position assignments are often only fixed at "recharter" ... if even then. It's common for the Webelos Den leader to still be listed as a Tiger Den Leader four years later.

 

#3 Our recharter is Feb/March. So it's typical that the Webelos den leader has been a Webelos den leader since June, but only gets updated to a WDL around mid-March. Nine months late for a knot that requires one year tenure.

 

#4 The Cub Scouting years are the BSA "learning" years for most leaders and they are taught "Do your best". Odds are they've never even read the scouter knot requirements as they are trying to just keep up with learning the cub program.

 

My own registration is a good example. Ten years ago I knew nothing of BSA paperwork and never heard of the accursed ScoutNET. I became the Webelos den leader at the same time the committee chair left. I didn't want to do both, but said I'd be glad to be CC when the webelos den graduated (18 months away). So the pack membership person changed my position to CC because she needed one for re-charter. She had enough den leaders on the membership list.

 

Now, I cleanly fulfilled all WDL knot requirements including consistently being at roundtable, attending UofS, fully trained, advancement, transitioning, planning, .... Should I get the knot? I think so, but I am not sure if it would go through as I've yet to apply for it.

 

As long as the person is registered with BSA, there should be flexibility in which title they are registered to earn the knot.

[robertwilliams]

Thanks for all the feedback. I am going to be the guinea pig and see if I can get the WDL knot myself (I've done the requirements; I just want to see how well the process works).

 

The knot program could help us a lot; for instance out pack has almost nobody at Roundtable (except the CM and sometimes me); my ADL and I are the only ones who've been to UoS, etc. I'm hopeful that this program will help us.

 

[drmbear]

I stopped ever registering Assistant Den Leaders. Most of the time it is more a co-Den Leader kind of process anyway. So in our pack we have no Assistant Den Leaders. The ones that serve as Den Leaders are all eligible for the DL awards, as they should be. When I first started as a DL, I registered myself as an assistant, because I thought the Tiger DL would be moving up. He ended up joining the military and leaving. The whole year, though I was registered as the assistant, I was the ONLY Wolf DL. Yet they wanted to say I was not eligible for the DL award. I didn't want anyone to be in that position.

[SeattlePioneer]

As drmbear and others suggest, many units are slackers when it comes to updating registration records to conform with actual practice. And that can bite people sometimes.

 

Personally, I'm quite picky about that for the adult leaders in my pack. I also make a point of awarding unit leaders their leadership patch at a pack meeting, along with a neckerchief and slide which their Cub Scout helps them put on.

 

I've had a number of parents tell me that that ceremony meant a lot to their son, and because of that it meant a lot to them, too.

 

Having adults recognized in a ceremony gives adults a taste of the emotional importance of such things to their Cub Scout. It helps put adults in the position of being better able to understand Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

I learned this myself when taking the IOLS Boy Scout outdoor training. At the conclusion of the training, the adult leaders put on an excellent ceremony to recognize the adults completing the course. The impact of that on ME was a surprise --- one I've remembered and tried to replicate for others ever since.