Uniforming: Rules without consequences?

[desertrat77]

I think we can carry the sports and band uniform comparision too far when it comes to scout uniforms.

 

Unlike band (the need for strict uniformity) and sports (utilitarian design coupled with uniformity), scout uniforms fall short in both categories.

 

Uniformity? A fully uniformed pack is a great goal and concept, but there is no overwhelming need for it. Scout programs can take place regardless.

 

Utility? The BSA hasn't sold a field-worthy uniform since the '60s. From the olive green cotton pajamas of the '70s, to the professional-meeting-goer ODL uniform of the '80s/'90s/'00s, to the hideous thing known as the Centennial Uniform, the BSA has fallen short in this category of the scouting experience. Parents must decide if they are going to spend big bucks to buy a uniform that simply is not scout-proof under most circumstances. And just as important, if the scout has little enthusiasm for the uniform because of the way it looks, it is very easy to just say forget it.

 

Yes, we can find stuff in thrift stores and ebay. Thank goodness.

 

So while I promote complete uniforming, I don't see it as a show stopper. Each unit will find a method that works best for them.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[AnnLaurelB]

Ouch. I'm a little stung by this thread. ANYWAY...

 

Has anyone mentioned that the uniforming is simpy a "method"? I'm sure someone can explain it better than I can.

 

But as CM, I tried to explain it to the parents, and then I addressed the boys and asked, "Would I EVER EVER want you to stay home just because you forgot your shirt, or left it at Grandma's or it got lost in the laundry?!?"

 

And they all knew the answer, of course. No! Come anyway! Come always!

 

Tell the ones who look sharp, "Hey! You look sharp!" Tell the ones not in uniform, "Man, I'm so glad you're here!"

[AKdenldr]

The boys are the number one volunteers in the whole darn scouting movement. It needs to be fun for them. You don't have the boys, you don't have a program and you don't reach the boys. Uniform and advancement pushes can undermind this.

 

That said, I was amazed how much the boys liked having a uniform inspection. At the younger ages the boys who were uniformed had better behavior in the meetings.

 

 

We use treats to reward uniforms. ("Have your shirt and book? Thanks for being prepared! Here's a piece of candy, put it in your pocket for after the meeting"). "If you wore your shirt to class today you may come pick out your hard hat first."

 

We are a waist up pack. We meet after school. Often times scout shirt and book just don't make it into the backpack. Some families and parents are more disorganized than others. I tend to think that the boys with less organized homes need our program the most.

 

My thoughts.

[BadenP]

 

This issue seems to be one of the most passionate ones in scouting today. Both camps have their boots firmly dug in the ground and will not budge.

 

So it then becomes are we truly in this for the boys, to give them a fun program or are we trying to create our own little armies of fully uniformed scouts/soldiers who do close order drilling just to impress other people. What kind of pack do you run?

[Scoutfish]

WEll, uniforms isn't just it's own thing. It is a part of scouting wether we particularly want it or not. May not have started that way, but is the way it is now.

 

For instance, the new scouts each year love the uniforms. They may not have them on correct, or done right, but they love them.

 

But where it really kicks in is after that first pack meeting when a scout is handed his Bobcat badge..which he gets mom to sew on his uniform so he can proudly display .

 

THEN IT'S GO TIME! Now ever scout wants to earn the next bead, next patch, next doddad or make a slider so he can put it on his unifrm or uniform accessory.

 

Somewher along the first couple months of the first year of Webelos...the uniforn loses some of it's appeal. But at trhat time, most of our boys are into the coolest novelty t shirts or compression shirts, sports jersy or whatever. Not so much that they no longer like to display stuff, but they like to display different stuff. Could be a Redskins jersey, or VanHalen shirt or a retro Pac'Man shirt.

 

Speaking of..Does anybody know who "The Angry Birds" are?

 

So the thing about the uniform is that there is not just one feeling or sentiment from the scouts. THose feelings change just like their tastes in food, xclothing, tv shows, reading, and everything else goes.

 

Now in our pack, we never criticize a scout for not being in correct uniform. Matter of fact, we only ask the uniform from the waist up . I see no reason to by a $30.00 pair of scout pants just to see two brand new holes in each knee after the first meeting..and yes! I have seen it too many times!

 

Now, when I see a scout in full correct uniform, her gets a high five and a "Job well done! "

When I see a necker that is crooked or upside down, I will help adjust if if the help is wanted. If a scout has just a shirt on and it's not tucked in, I might say sometyhing like: "Those shirts really look cool when tucked in." and leave it at that. No more, no less. No attitude or condescending tone either.

 

WE praise proper uniforming, but do not criticize the opposite.

 

Our main focus is scouts having a great time so they want to stay in scoutin g and keep coming back.

 

If the uniform is a part of that - GREAT! If not - Great!

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Scoutfish---

 

 

I agree completely with your values and practices.

 

 

Some packs may have enough wealthy or self sacrificing parents for everyone to buy complete uniforms, and God Bless 'Em!

 

But for packs serving lower income areas like mine, I think your value scheme is more appropriate.

 

Different units adapt the same program to the needs of their participants and communities. That's the way Scouting works and the way it's supposed to work as far as I'm concerned.

[Scoutfish]

I guess I need to backpedal a little bit for a minute:

 

When it comes time for colors, we choose scouts in the fullest uniforms. I say fullest because we are a wait up pack. If a scout has on his belt and everything else above that - we consider it full uniform.

 

So, when colors comes, we pick the den with the most scouts in "full" uniform and let them do colors.

 

If any one den does not hae enough scouts in full uniform, we will pull enough scouts from each den to make up a color guard.

 

Again, we do not criticize scouts who are not if full uniform, but this is one instance where they and their parents can see the benefit/ or reward of having the "full" uniform on.

 

Another instance: When we wnt and greeted returning WWII vets ( ater they visited the WWII memorial in DC) all scouts were in full uniform and we required them to wear very dark blue jeans or dark blue pants/ shorts ( green in you were a Webelos with tan shirt ).

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Heh, heh! No backpedaling now, Scoutfish!

 

 

"Always forward,

 

NEVER back,

 

be prepared for a Tiger Cub/Wolf/Bear/WEBELOS attack!

[BadenP]

Scoutfish

 

Sounds like you handle this issue in your pack with a lot of common sense, Kudos!

[ShutterbugMom]

Our den leader has asked that everyone wear their uniform to each meeting unless he specifies otherwise (if they going to get dirty.) Usually most of the boys wear them. While pants are not part of the requirement, I do think it looks kind of silly when they wear the whole top half of the uniform with athletic shorts that hang below their knees. I guess because I am a mom! Ha!

 

I will say, my son is one of the few in his den that plays baseball, and it always conflicts with scouts in the spring. He has the occasion where he can attend scouts at 6:30 pm *and* attend his game at 8pm, however, he has to wear his baseball uniform to scouts to get it done. In that case, I don't feel bad about him not wearing his scout uniform, when the other choice is to totally miss scouts.

 

Several of you have mentioned giving the boys a candy / treat reward for wearing their uniform. While I am sure my son would love that, as a mom, I would really dislike that. He should not be rewarded for doing something he should be doing anyway. He doesn't get treats for doing his homework. And some may disagree, but food rewards are generally a bad way to go IMHO.

 

I should mention that all of the scouts in our den have uniforms and appear to be able to afford them. Also, our pack pays NO dues after the initial signup. They also earn 10% of all popcorn they sell which they can use to pay for their uniforms (or other scouting events / items.)

[Eagle92]

Shutter,

 

He could always bring his baseball uniform on a hanger and change either at the meeting before leaving, or at the field. We had many Scouts doing that in my troop, including yours truly. Only it wasn't sports but dances .

[ShutterbugMom]

Sure, he could do that, but it just allows him to be at scouts for an extra 15 minutes (he has to leave early no matter what) if he wears his uniform. I guess it just depends on the situation too. He leaves early so he can be at baseball warmups. He pitches so he must warm up.

 

For my son, although he dearly loves scouts, if we made him choose, he would choose baseball, so we don't push the issue. ;-)

[Jeffrey H]

We don't have consequences for not wearing the uniform. We reward for those that do a good job with it. Most boys wear their uniform and will feel out-of-place if they don't have it on.

 

As a CM, I'm talking with a mom who has 3 boys (tiger, wolf, and bear) that have shown interest in our Pack. They stopped coming to den meetings because the mom told me that she cannot afford the uniforms for 3 boys at once. I told her I certainly understood and the Pack would try to help her. In the meantime, I told her that they did not need to be in uniform to come to den meetings and be a part of the Pack. The mom did not see it my way because she sees the uniform as part of the scout identity and feels embarassed that her boys do not have one. You see, it's not just us leaders that place importance on the wearing of the uniform. I told the mom the boys will need to start coming back to den meetings, show some commitment, pay a much-reduced registration fee, and we would gladly help her get uniforms for her boys. The last sentence is important because we have helped families get uniforms only to have them drop out of the program within a few months.