AOL - a Beginning or the End

[hmidgley]

Are your Webelos Scouts looking forward to joining a Troop or are they leaving Scouting? What steps due you take to get them into Boy Scouts? What are the reasons given for not continuing Scouting? Thank you for your thoughts and comments.

 

Harry

[Scoutfish]

Truth be told....we see more scouts drop out because mom and dad see this as a good stopping point. The rest are lost due to girls, sports, committments to other things or moving.

 

But with mom and dad, It's like they are taking advantge of not seein g us and it's before they see the leaders and members of the troop.

 

Thing is, when a WEbelos I or II works for his AOL - he hasn'r given up or thought to drop out - he's engaged and going full throttle.

 

But mom and dad see AOL as a end point and time to stop having to drive the son to meetings.

[infoscouter]

 

 

This is why in our Cub Scout pack, I never talk about "if" you become a Boy Scout, but "when" you become a Boy Scout. we need to present to Scouts and parents from the day they walk into their first Join Scouting event, that they are joining a lifelong movement, one that extends far beyond 5th grade. The task of instilling character, citzenship and fitness can not be completed in Cub Scouting, but must be extended into Boy Scouting and Venturing.

 

Sell your pack, sell Cub Scouting, but also sell the movement.

[momof2cubs]

In our pack we tend to work it so that AoL is not completed until just about time for crossover. By saying that, I don't mean we deliberately hold back boys from earning it, just that everything is timed so that by March when they cross over they earn AoL.

 

One of the things they typically do is have one of the last meetings before cross over to sign off on knowledge of the Scout Oath and Promise, describing the parts of the uniform, etc.

 

And in our pack it tends to be when you cross to Boy Scouts, not if. Although I don't know the retention numbers beyond the 1st couple of years in a troop.

[Eagle92]

Me personally, I see getting the AOL as just the beginning. Let's face it, yes Cubs is fun, but it's when you get to Boy Scouts that you get away from mom, dad, and overeager leaders like myself, and start doing things on your own, learning from your peers, and challenging yourself. At least that was my expereince.

 

But there are a lot of parents who do see the AOL as an ending point. Heck at one time National Supply sold AOL belt buckles like the Eagle ones, which in my mind kinda emphasized that opinion. Also let's face it not every troop is a hiking and camping one, not every troop is youth led, and it's seena s a "Webelos III" and the kids don't want it. Also I've seen a lot burn out with Scouting, as well as poor Webelos to Scout transitions.

[Tampa Turtle]

I agree start saying "when you are a boy scout" and start doing more adventurous activities. I had 3 of 9 that did not cross over last time. Two were the moms was not ready for them to be "on their own". One hated the outdoors, we hike in a city park on a paved trail and he found the plants and animals quite appalling. He played Hockey instead (yes Tampa has rinks).

 

All 9 boys got AOL. I think of all the Webes in the former Pack 90%+ get the AOL. The inflation of the "honor" of the AOl --and yes parents think it is like the Eagle--screams ending point.

 

There is a lot of burn out by the end of Webes, especially the leaders and some of the boys. Really, really need for them to do 3 or 4 Boy Scout activities to wet the appetite.

 

We have had some luck in planting the suggestion (not to hard as some mom's are skittish about turning over there boys)about how great it is to "get rid" of the boys for a weekend every month. How some couples have turned that into time for date night or girls night out. Works with some folks. Also the idea that they need to learn to do somethings on their own in a safe controlled environment.

 

[Basementdweller]

Wow lots of opinions......

 

Losing an 11 year old boy to girls......No

Losing an 11 year old boy to cars, and jobs, no.

 

Sports yes

lazy disinterested parents yes

Divorce yes

moving yes

 

 

The reason we lose boys is failure of the Webelos Den leaders treat this as a transition.

 

I am very successful at transitioning boys from Webelos to Boy Scouts. I did lose a couple to disinterested parents and sports, not all boys are interested and their parents definitely are not interested.

 

What works for me.

 

Have ASM's who are ADL with Webelos.

The Webelos Den camps with the troop twice for a total of 5 camp outs during their webelos year.

We treat the webelos program as a single year, Most will earn their AOL in 10 months.

Summer Webelos Resident Camp for all.

The Webelos Den joins the troop for opening and closing each meeting.

While a small thing, have the boys chose a Den Name and elect a Den Leader.

Attend a Webelos event, Webelos weekend or Webelos woods.

 

 

Interestingly enough, the first troop meeting after they cross over, the parents are actually surprised by having to fill out another application to join the troop.

 

 

[hmidgley]

Very interesting comments! Thank you all for responding. Seems most of you have had problems with parents not being interested in Scouting. What can we do to correct this? Do you hink having the Webelos camp multiple times during their program would help the parents realize they can have a weekend off?

 

Eagle92 - interesting description of an adult run Troop as Webelos III. I expect that would turn current Webelos Den Leaders off.

 

Some of you indicated that you have about 1/3 or less of your boys drop out. Can anyone else provide an idea of your cross over rate?

 

Thanks again for all the good feedback.

[Basementdweller]

a WDL would love an adult lead troop. The meeting is orderly and on time. Boy led can be messy late and poorly organized.

 

Over the last three years my crossover rate went from 10% to 90%. First year we had a female den leader who treated the boys like a bear den and a class room experience. Second year we did all of the activities very hands on, the boys did not sit during the meeting.

[kari_cardi]

We've had 100% crossover from Webelos to Boy Scouts for the last 4 years. I give credit to an enthusiastic Webelos program and close ties to our brother troop. We share families as well as leadership to some extent, which is reassuring to parents I think. This year might be a little different. All of the boys and parents have indicated interest in Boy Scouts except for one family of a boy with special needs. I know the dad has concerns. We are looking for a special needs troop to refer him to if the family doesn't feel comfortable with the troop that shares our CO.

[Scoutfish]

We have an awesome crossover rate. In 4 years, only 2 boys out of about 55 to 60 did not continue on in Boy Scouts. THose were the boys who's parents saw AOL as a stopping point.

 

Two of the boys wanted to continue, one did not, but wether it was because mom and dad had nothinmg good to say abouit continueing or wether the boy just didn't like it is beyond me.

 

Out of all the boys who do continue on, 90% cross to our CO's troop, while the rest will go to other close by troops.

 

IT's not a perfect set of figures as the amount changes each year,

 

One year the WEBELOS II boys might number 15, the next 9 or 23.

 

But anyways, my point was - and based on what I have seen and experienced - any boy who works towards and earns his AOL - is enjoying the program and looking forward to becoming a Boy Scout.

 

If he doesn't continue on, usually it's becaue mom and dad see it as a stopping point.

 

Me? I see it as neither stop or start, I see it as a transition to change!

[Eagle92]

HM,

 

In my expereince Base is rigt in that I have found it is harder for WDLs and other CS leaders to step back in a youth run troop than parents at times. IMHO part of the problem is that CSDLs are trained multiple times, i.e TCDL level, CSDL ( and twice at the CSDL if you look at the online training) and WDL level to take charge and organize. Kinda hard to overcome that training IMHO. I hope that when the time comes, I remember to take the "AL BUNDY APPROACH TO BEING AN ASM"

 

To quote Master Yoda, CS leaders moving to Boy Scouts "... must unlearn what you have learned."

[Jeffrey H]

Most of our Webelos and parents see it as an ending point for cub scouts and a transition point to begin Boy Scouts. Our Pack emphasizes that Webelos is a transition period from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts and most (if not all) are ready to move on to Boys Scouts after earning AOL. I can't recall a time during the past 5 years when one of our Webelos stopped at AOL.

 

Even with the enthusiasm to move on to Boy Scouts, about two-thirds of my original Webelos Scouts dropped out of the program within two years after crossing over. The reasons they left are too many reasons too list here and that's another discussion. My Webelos Den crossed over more than 2 years ago and only about one-third of the original group is still active with the Troop.

[Eagledad]

At all ages, boys perceive their next year of scouting to be as enjoyable as this year. If they look forward to scout meetings this year, they will be in scouts next year. If not, well they are just waiting it out the end because that is easier than trying to explain to all the adults why they don't want to come anymore.

 

As for parents, I have always said of Cub Scouting, "make the parents happy and their sons will be happy". Parents don't like hassles. If they have to beg and plead to get their son to the scout meeting, that is a hassle. However, it is rare to hear of a parent not wanting their son to continue scouting when he looks forward to every meeting.

 

How the Webelos perceive their next year is a good indication of how well the program is doing is doing this year.

 

Barry