Deep Question!!

[ASM1]

Bob, you better finish reading the document, and the documents about White Stag from BSA. I have no way of knowing if it is true other than what I read in BOTH publications concerning White Stag. If you know better, please state your sources of information to disprove this statement.

 

ASM1

[Bob White]

White stag, according to there own history on the website had elements of its course incorporated in Wood Badge in 1967. many of those elements remained through 2000. But in 2000 a entirely new Wood Badge was developed. significantly different than the previous incarnations of the course.

 

Woodbadge for the 21st Century was based on the management writings of Kenneth Blanchard and contributing writing of 50 volunteers selected from across the country. I was one of those 50.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[ASM1]

Bob, My applause for being one of the 50. But if not you, someone else would have made up the 50th person. How does that prove or disprove the statements by White Stag and BSA about the origins of Wood Badge then or Now in the 21st century. I do not see the connection.

 

I am getting form your statement that you do not endorese White Stag for youth training. This was explained to me by people from White Stag. They called it "entrentched opposition". If there is opposition, then there certainly needs to be an explaination to hold this great resource from our youth.

 

Like I said, our units will attend and become White Stag units with pride that our youth has the tools to become adult leaders and insure the continuance of this great program. Again, I say you have not read the documents.

 

ASM1

[Bob White]

I have only found reference to elements of White Stag being used in the old Wood Badge course http://www.whitestag.org/history/index.html there is no reference to White Stag being used in Wood Badge for the 21st Century which is completely new this year and has little resemblence to the prior course.

 

Where White stag was based oon the writings of Bela Banathy, WB for the 21st century is based on the management teachings of Kenneth Blanchard.

 

You mentioned having a BSA resource linking White Stag to the NEW Wood Badge Course. i would be interested in that reference.

 

Bob White

[ozemu]

The white stag seems to have quite a history. I don't want to interupt the wood badge discussion but in case you haven't seen it here is a link to BP-'White Stag'-Hungary Jamboree etc http://pinetreeweb.com/whitestg.htm

 

Thanks for bringing it up ASM1. The US programme as well as the Pinetree web items will keep me in reading material for a few evenings.

[johndeer]

I believe I can help address some information regarding this topic of discussion... Bob is correct about white stag and the new 21st century wood badge course. The two are not connected in anyway except from the help and leadership of another scouter like Bob who also was on the national task force in restructuring the new NYLT program. That scouter has been involved with the white stag program for a number of years. However the wood badge before the 21st century is structured from the white stag program. When white stag began in 1958, it truly redefined the way we teach leadership. It became the pinnacle and model for leadership training that spread to a national level. They were also the first to incorporate a tri phase program, where 3 troops run concurrently teaching patrol member development, patrol leader development, and senior patrol leader development. Truly an impressive history. I can tell you the national average of scouts trained in most councils is around 40 or so. White stag trains 200 scouts per program, with a staff of 15 to 20 scouters and 35 to 40 scouts. The program has received such a demand from scouts and scoutmasters all across the nation and internationally, that now the white stag program runs 2 camps per summer.

[johndeer]

if there is any interest regarding more information about this program, there is a web site that is very informative... www.whitestag.org

[Kudu]

White Stag destroyed the lifework of William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt, to whom Scouter.Com is dedicated.

 

Reading between the lines of White Stag's side of the story, Green Bar Bill understood just how badly leadership theory stinks, and went down swinging to prevent White Stag's destruction of Wood Badge, Patrol Leader Training, and the Patrol Method itself:

 

Some members were very resistant to the idea of changing the focus of Wood Badge from training leaders in Scoutcraft to leadership skills. Among them was Bill Hillcourt, who had been the first United States Wood Badge Course Director in 1948. Although he had officially retired on August 1, 1965, his opinion was still sought after and respected.

 

Larson later reported, "He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right."

 

When Bnthy, Perin, and Larson's new anti-Scoutcraft program was implemented in 1972, the Scoutmaster's Handbook declared White Stag's victory over Bill Hillcourt with the following insult:

 

In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill (page 155).

 

Kudu

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I just knew that resurrecting a thread after 7 years would not bode well...

 

Of note is after the BSA realized the error of their ways, well, at least some of their way, Green Bar Bill was brought back to redo the redone, at least somewhat