Fed up

[ryetye]

Our webelos den leader has had an invite from a area troop to go on a trip over the summer. The leader responded in less than 20 minutes without asking any of the den. Do you think this is fair to the scouts considering they will be webelos 2 at the end of school. They have not been on the first camping trip this year because the leader doesn't camp.( By the way this leader has 2 council positions as well as cc for another bs troop.

[ScoutNut]

Are you the assistant for your son's Webelos den?

 

Do you camp?

 

Since the den leader does not camp, and it sounds like he could use a bit of help, how about talking to him, and offering to be responsible for the den on the camping trip with the Troop?

 

By the way, it does not matter what other positions this Webelos den leader holds outside of the Pack.

[ryetye]

As far as leadership goes its run like a dictatorship.He Doesn't want anyone to know whats going on until we get there. Myself and the other dads usually get everything started(Flag ceremony scout laws and so on) so we can have a full hour meeting due to him showing up 20 minutes late most of the time. As far as camping goes I have asked for Phone numbers and emails so we can go out this summer and was told I dont need them because he doesn't want any recruiting going on. I am a committe member for my oldest boys scout troop and have been Leader trained And take the younger scouts out with other adults when the older ones do an in troop merit badge weekend. Because the boys don't do anything we lost 4 boys completely out of scouting since bears and I suspect 3 more will not be coming back next year.(This message has been edited by ryetye)

[moosetracker]

Seems like a silly question given your frustration. But, since you have asked him and he will not accomidate, it is time to move up the ladder.. So have you talked to the Cub Master & the Committee Chair?.. Either should be able to give you the phone #s to your other den parents, Either could talk to the WDL and let him know that they have decided you and one other parent are qualified to take the boys camping and that you have their blessing to do so.. Either could tell the WDL he is getting assistance who are in charge of the outdoor portion of the Webelo program.

 

If it is really bad, and you have the majority of the dens parents wanting a new DL, then CC/CM & COR (who the CC & CM should call in if a person is being removed from a position) can get the ball rolling to make that happen.. But, you should have a replacement in mind.

 

I am sure your CC & CM do not like conflict. But if you give them conflict one way or the other.. Either one unhappy de-throned ex-WDL.. Or 5 or more unhappy parents calling them constantly with this is done wrong, or that is done wrong.. A patition to replace the WDL.. And a plan as to who is willing and capable to take over..

 

Then you can make it an easy choice of dealing with a conflict with one person for a short time until the dust settles, or a conflict with a multitude of parents that will continue everytime the WDL opens his mouth.

 

The big thing is to have definite succession plan..

 

But, if getting them to force him to have an assitant to work the outdoor aspect of the program. One who has the authority for the Outdoor section that he can not override.. If this will make you & the other parents happy, then that is the more friendlier alternative for all concerned.

 

Even with that you should have the succession plan ready to go in case he throws a temper tantrum and quits..

[Papadaddy]

Selecting a webelos leader who "doesn't camp" is like hiring a swimming instructor who hates the water.

[Basementdweller]

We don't know the specifics....so it impossible to render decent advice. It is entirely possible that the campout is not Webelo friendly, again we don't know.

 

Things you can do as a concerned parent, make a few phone calls yourself. Most councils have websites that list units and addresses with contact phone numbers. Call the troop yourself and ask to attend the event, I am not sure if I would ask the entire den, but I would pass the info along to any other interested dads.

 

I am guessing the troop that contacted you is not one that the WDL is a part of, leading to the NO.

[Twocubdad]

So during the 20 minutes you're always waiting for him to show, why didn't you just collect the roster info from the other parents?

 

When he gets there, get him caught up on your plans for the campout. Hand him a hammer and show him were you are on the Engineer project the boys are building.

 

As Captain Courageous said, "Lead, follow or get out of the way."

[SeattlePioneer]

Two Cub Dad has an interesting approach if yu think the WDL is salvagable, Moostrackers approach to replacing him if he's not.

 

 

As CM, I raised concerns about changinf from a Bear Den program to a Webelos Program in another thread. The current Bear Den Leader is overburdened and probably needs more help to do a suitable Webelos camping program.

 

So I've e-mailed my CC and begun discussions about how we can get the information we need and discuss these issues with the Bear DL. The CC and her husband are good friends of the Bear DL and I expect can help get those channels of communication open that I haven't managed.

 

Once we find out what to do, we can start talking to den parents to get the help needed to make the program work.

 

I was feeling stuck when I couldn't communicarte with the DL. Someone posting pointed out that other people, notably the CC can do that too, and better than I in this case.

 

It may be that this kind of assessment needs to be made routinely when Bear Dens transition to Webelos, because the programs ought to be quite different to accommodate the interests of boys outgrowing the Cub Scout program.

[ScoutNut]

As Moose and Twocub stated, there are other ways to get the contact info you need.

 

The easiest way to get Scout contact info is to talk to the parents and Scouts in those 20 minutes you are waiting for the den leader to show up.

 

Since is is now most likely past your last regular den meetings, giving your CM, or CC, a call and asking for a roster for the Pack, or the two Webelos dens, is the next best way (my Pack hands out a Pack roster to all leaders, and has den and Pack rosters available to all on ScoutManage).

 

The easiest way to get Troop contact info is to check out Beascout.org to see what info is there, and then call your council offices for any other needed contact information.

 

You might try reassuring the den leader that you are not recruiting for your Troop (as you know that he would not do for his Troop either), but simply helping him to help the Webelos to meet their badge requirements, get a sense of a variety of Troops, and get better prepared for Boy Scouts (no matter where they go).

 

 

[ryetye]

den leader is the cc and at cub scouts and his sons scout troop where our cubmaster is charter rep. The camping trip is at a va state park and doing a tubing float along the river. Myself and the other parent that knows about this are confronting him next meeting about this as well as being adressed at roundtable on both sides cs(which he runs) and bs side. Last I heard it is about the scouts, not leaders. Personally I dont care what troop invites as long as the scouts go and see what its about, then they make a choice not the adult. As far as myself knowing about it Myself and one other adult have older boys in the inviting troop. We just would rather do it in the proper manner and allow the sm and asm notify the cub leaders. The other pack we contacted already has a planned event, but we now have that pack set up as a group on our weekly eblast and gave them all usernames and passwords so they could sign up for events if they wish.(This message has been edited by ryetye)

[Papadaddy]

So this is not a run-of-the-mill camping trip. Is the Webelos den able to meet the Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat requirements (inlcuding adult training?). When water is involved, there's more involved than just adding a bathing suit to your backpack.

[moosetracker]

Yeah, our troop may be more saftey oriented then yours, but they would never take kids that they don't know the swimming abilities of on a trip involving water.. In fact until our scouts get their Swimming Meritbadge (not just pass the swim test at camp).. They will not go on canoeing, Kayaking or white water trips, they will go on swimming trips, but some (not all) time is spent working on the swimming Merit badge.

 

Scouts do not need their DL's approval to visit troops or attend troop events.. But, there may be some valid concerns over this activity, rather then just trying to force everyone to go to the troop of their choice.

[ryetye]

as far as training goes our troop requires everyone that attends any trip to have proof of all online training and leaders be first aid and cpr trained. Committe members indoor and outdoor trained. As far as the camping trip goes invites have been made to camp at local council scout camp and it was not passed on.

[Lisabob]

ryetye, let me make a suggestion. There is no reason you & your son, or other parents & their webelos sons, can' contact the troop directly and request this sort of invite. If you want the boys to go on a troop camp out and the WDL has not been sharing info, go above his head, straight to the Scoutmaster of the troop. Ask for an invite to an upcoming "regular" campout (not boy scout summer camp, and not high adventure stuff, not rafting).

 

Regardless of the communication issues & den leader issues you have mentioned, the rafting trip does NOT sound like a great one to tag along on. For one thing, the troop probably doesn't know these boys from Adam, and now they're going to take them on a water excursion? (Lots of rules about cubs and water but beyond that, common sense dictates that you don't usually want to take kids of unknown swimming ability on a water trip. Further, it could be a pretty big challenge to take kids who know little about how things function in a boy scout troop - who is in charge, what needs to get done to stay safe, how they are expected to behave - and put them in the water. That could seriously tax the leadership ability and safety of all on this trip.)

 

For another, the boys in the troop may see this tubing/rafting trip as one of the really super-cool end-of-year things they get to do. Having webelos along will change that for them. Save this trip for when the boys have actually joined the troop.

 

Not a great fit, and I'm pretty surprised that the troop would have invited cubs to join in on this particular event.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

I'm not really understanding the full picture here.

 

Is the WDL's Webelos son going on the trip with him? How do you know this wasn't a personal invitation only for the WDL?

 

If I'm understanding you correctly (which is somewhat unlikely) this doesn't seem like a Webelos den issue at all. Since you have son's in the troop, perhaps the proper course would be as a troop parent to approach the Scoutmaster in a friendly and non-confrontational way and tell him that you understand that some younger brothers/Webelos are going on the tubing trip and that your younger son would really like to attend too. As a matter of fact, several of the Webelos would like to go and this would make a great Troop-Den activity. Of course, as others have noted, you have to do your homework and make sure that it is, in fact, an appropriate activity for the whole den.

 

Invitations are invitations. The person/group doing the inviting gets to decide. Of course if the troop did invite the entire den and the WDL took it upon himself to not deliver the invitation, you have a right to be p.o.'d(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)