Is this some kind of record for First Class?

[Zorn Packte]

We had a BOR for a Scout last night who "completed" all of the 1st Class requirements. This guy is only 10 years old and it is within a couple days of 6 months of him crossing over.

 

I put "completed" in quotes because I'm not sure how he managed to do it all. His mom is ASM for New Scouts and I think that she played fast and easy with some of the requirements. For example, I think one of the requirements (my book is elsewhere right now) is to attend 9 functions other than troop meetings. For the life of me, I can't imagine how he did that we had a new scout campout, summer camp, a clean up day and he missed our "recruiting day." I have a feeling that his mom declared everything thing that they did during the summer "a scout function".

 

Other things too, like cooking for your patrol. I know for a fact he wasn't the patrol cook on the new boy campout and they didn't have any patrol campouts this summer but the family did go camping a few times so I'm sure she let him cook then.

 

Any suggestions? Should I just live with it or should I make a fuss?

 

 

 

 

[Mike Long]

I'd question the person who signed the book and not the scout. Judging by your description of the activities and the cooking requirement it sounds like it's something that needs to be looked at.

 

If those are the only things your troop and his patrol has done then he hasn't completed the requirement, not only because of the total number of activities but that three of them need to be overnight campouts.

 

The requirement does state that activities that are "Troop/patrol" are acceptable. Maybe his patrol did some activities other than meetings that you aren't aware of.

[Jerry]

Make a fuss!!!

 

Our troop has 3 Life Scouts about to become Eagle. They've all been allowed to slide since day one, and they expect to slide through Eagle. They meet the bare minimum requirements on paper, but none of the adults (save their parents) feel any one of them has actually earned Eagle.

 

Problem is, it's too late. One of the parents is willing to sue if necessary (he's done it before,) and the others would fight as well. Had this bad precident been nipped in the bud when they were tenderfoots, maybe we could have prevented this bad situation from occuring. Alas, few of us were involved with this troop back then, so we've inherited the lax standards of those who came before us.

 

Deal with it now before you have an 11 year old demanding an Eagle Board of Review.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

I would definelty have a problem with this, did his Mom sign off the book? I would speak privatly with the Scoutmaster who should talk to the ASM (Mom) no way should he advance, maybe the Mom needs a clear understanding of how to interpet the requirements, the requirements are quite clear but I guess can be mis-interpeted. Pls keep the board posted as to the outcome

[ASM1]

You bet your boots you need to question this. New 6 months and 1st Class? Not impossible I guess but really rare. Did mom sign off in his book? And another question, who did the Scoutmasters Conference?

 

A couple years ago in our old unit under the old SM my son was "Stompped" and kept from his Star rank. I was very angry. But the SM explained that he was not ready and that it had only been six month since his 1st Class rank had been granted.

 

After long reflection on this and now that 2 years have past, the SM was right. My son was not ready for Star. Since then he has gotten Star and Life and is working his Eagle project. And yes, my son has come back to Scouting with a vengence! He is helping organize our new unit and heavy into recruitment.

 

Question this advancement, the boy need to be ready in mind as well as time requirements.

 

ASM1

[eagle90]

It sounds to me as if the mom involved is still in the Cub Scout mode of mom and dad signing off on everything with little or no cross checking. Who did the SM conferenes for T and 2nd Class? I would check on what activities are being counted towards the requirements. Sounds like that is the "out" you need to question the rank advancement.

[shemgren]

The purpose of the BOR is:

To make sure the Scout has done what he was supposed to do for the rank.

To see how good an experience the Scout is having in the unit.

To encourage the Scout to progress further.

(Adavncement Committee Policies and Procedures, page 28)

 

The decision of all boards is arrived at through discussion and must be unanimous. The Scout should be asked where he learned his skill, who taught him, and the value he gained from passing this requirement. The Scout reviews what he did for his rank. From this review, it can be deterined whether he did what he was suppose to do. (ibid, page 29 & 30)

 

In the case of this Scout, the BOR has occured and he is a First Class Scout. I would advise that in the future, the SM and the specifically the BOR look closely at this Scout has he approaches Star. Merit Badge must be signed off by the Counselor, not the ASM in question.

 

The purpose of the First Class program as it is, is to allow the new Scouts to quickly gain some rank, and National has studies that show Scouts who gain First Class in the first year have higher retention and much better chances at becoming Eagles.

 

The chance of this Scout to proceeding to being "pencil-whipped" into rank decreases are the ranks grow harder. THe ASM can continue to sign off on things, but the BOR should become more careful in it's reviewing of this Scout.

 

Go to your SM and discuss your feelings and let the SM deal with the ASM. If this doesn't solve the issue, discuss the issue with your troop committe. Many units have a policy concerning relatives signing off on advancements. Officially by BSA policy, there is not to be such a policy in the troop.

[evmori]

9 events in 6 months? Most Troops onl have obe event per month. I would definitely question mom on what the events were.

 

Boy Scouts isn't Cubs. The Scouts need to learn what was signed off!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Zorn Packte]

I've queried both the SM and the Adv. Chair and they are both of the opinion that all requirements are met. But our BORs have had a history of just rubber stamping advancement and not really making sure any requirements were met.

 

 

[red feather]

Ditto with Shemgren. The flag has been raised to monitor this scout and his parent ASM. What is done is done but now you have been 'notified' of the situation. Take it as a challenge to make sure yourself that this scout earns his future ranks.

 

YIS

[Zorn Packte]

The purpose of the First Class program as it is, is to allow the new Scouts to quickly gain some rank, and National has studies that show Scouts who gain First Class in the first year have higher retention and much better chances at becoming Eagles.

 

I guess that this idea is something that rubs me the wrong way. The goal of Scouting is not to produce Eagle Scouts and the success of a program should not be judged by the number of Eagles that it produces.

 

It seems that the road to Eagle has become just a series of ticket punches instead of the end result of a natural progression of a Scout.

 

Too often I hear parents telling their sons, "Do this, it will count for Eagle." What I really LOVE are the parents that get to talking about whose son is farther along to Eagle at the lowest age ("My son is ready for his project and he's only 13" or with the Scout in question it may be 12).

 

A Scout or Scouting program should judged by his attainment of the stated goals of Scouting, Character, Citizenship and Physical Fitness, not by what badge is worn on whose shirt.

 

 

[slontwovvy]

Ditto to all. Scouts should not be shoo-ed in for anything. Sadly, too many Scouts get into OA as soon as they get first class (wrecking a fine organization with a fine purpose) or get honors and awards they are not prepared to get.

 

Here's some things that can help:

 

Interim BORs-Every three or four months, take your Scouts aside and ask them how they're doing. Look over their requirements and talk about their next step.

 

Don't let parents sign off--We have a rule in our troop that parents can only sign off on five requirements per rank. Any more, and another adult has to (often just by hearing the Scout describe what they did and how they did it).

[ASM7]

We have an unwritten rule in our troop where the scouter parent doesn't sign off on his/her son. You may want to adopt this rule.

Slontwovvy, I hope you weren't referring to non-scouter parents. Parents should never sign there boy off in Boy Scouts.

Doug

[OldGreyEagle]

I hate to be the only salmon swimming upstream, but here goes:

 

Did the scout show any evidence he knew his stuff?

Was the scout confident he had completed the requirements?

 

Outside of the BOR, does the scout show he knows his way around a campsite? If you toss him a rope and ask if he can show Tommy Tenderfoot how to tie a square knot, etc can he?

 

Is it possible that the scout "earned" first class? yes it is, although the mother did nothing to help by being the one who signed the requirements off.

 

And now my bid for the talking out of both sides of my mouth award.

 

BSA has no rule/requirement/policy whatever that "scouter" parents cannot sign off requirements on their sons. Many troops (including mine) have the gentlemen's agreement, OK Sctmom et al, gentleperson's agreement that a parent doesnt sign off tenderfoot to first class requirements or counsel an Eagle required merit badge. But this is done voluntarily. It has not been violated, but if it was, the troop could not contest it as it is within the rules. An overabundance of parental signatures does give one pause however

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[dan]

I beleive that in the Scoutmaster handbook, it says that the Scoutmaster decides who can sign requirments. This does not apply to Merit Badges.