Pencil-Whipped Webelos

[83Eagle]

I just gotta vent on this one.

 

Our Den that will be 2nd year Webelos next year has been a challenge for some time. The Den, then Bears, lost its original leader midway through 2009. One of the parents stepped up to take over but by the end of the year, due to some conflicts with another parent in the den, threw up her hands and quit. Amazingly, that other parent volunteered to lead the Den starting last fall, although in retrospect that turned out to be a very bad choice.

 

This Den had always been on the inactive side compared to other Dens, a situation which became exacerbated under the new DL who believes scouting is "have a meeting, earn a badge" and doesn't care at all for the outdoors. I dont believe ANYONE from the Den made ONE Pack outing outside the monthly meetings during the 2010-2011 school year. Quite often only one scout from the Den was at Pack meetings and the DL was a no-show at a few meetings herself early on.

 

Things got worse when, halfway through the year, the WDL announced that her family would be moving out of state at the end of the year and that if anyone wanted to take over they were welcome.

 

Now, we had already been getting occasional complaints from parentspoor communication, why is my WDL not at meetings, boys being awarded Webelos activity badges for things only partially done or not done at all, etc. However, none of the parents was willing to step up and take over so we kept the "warm body" in the role. Again, in retrospect, this was probably not the best choice, but in January we were only looking at just over four months left in the school year before she left, and the boys were progressing in advancement, so we figured we could deal with it after she was gone.

 

Unfortunately, it soon became clear that she was only going to phone it in for the rest of the year. The WDL would consistently not come through on things she had committed to do with or for the Pack and my attempts to work with her on that were unsuccessful. Her Den was supposedly not interested in working with the Boy Scouts or with the older Webelos den on joint activities. Things came to a head a few days before the Blue & Gold when she advised me that her Den would not be participating in the program part of the event because there was again supposedly no interest on the part of the boys--a fact which I knew to be untrue from talking to parents afterward who complained why their boys did not have a performance like the other scouts.

 

When I circled back to the WDL to express my concern about this, she got defensive and told me she would no longer come to Pack meetings at all for the rest of the year. When I told her that, as DL, she is supposed to be at Pack meetings for her den, her husband called our CC and said if I didnt quit harassing her he would file a complaint. Again, this was probably a point at which it was time to find any other warm body to fill the role, but that too is water over the dam at this point.

 

So, the Den limped along for two more months as it had been, holding a Den meeting a month and having 1 or 2 of its 5 boys show up at Pack meetings.

 

Then we have our final Pack meeting in May. All is done, right?

 

Wrong.

 

A few days after the final Pack meeting, the DL sends an email to our advancement coordinator asking for Webelos activity pins to award to ALL the boys in the Den. Up until then she had turned in 8 pin requests. She turned in a request for 8 additional pins for all the boys, bringing each to a total of 16.

 

Really? This coming from a den that held only monthly meetings in the WDL's home, never had a Den outing, had sparse attendance at Pack meetings, never made a Pack outing, and where parents had already expressed concern about awards being given for things not done?

 

So now we get to deal with this new situation. Proof that problems do not go away just by the passage of time. Yes, you do have to let DLs run their program, and walk the fine line between monitoring and micro-managing. I suppose in this case we should have faced the inevitable World War and fixed this in January rather than kicking the can down the road. Live and learn.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally I think the Webelos program is 'way too complicated for a lot of average WDL to manage. Many just aren't going to have the varied skills or be able to manage all the teaching required.

 

That leaves a choice for WDL --- turn Webelos meeting into school going over one requirement after another, or dispense with many of the requirements and concentrate on learning hiking, camping and other outdoor skills or fun activities.

 

My choice would be #2 by a country mile.

 

IF you have a WDL who can do it all, great! If you don't concentrate on having fun activities for the boys. They will still learn a lot more than "school" programs.

[ScoutNut]

The BSA Webelos program is not all that complicated, nor should it involve one person standing in front of the room "teaching".

 

The Webelos Activity badges are a stepping stone to Boy Scout Merit Badges. As such, if you ignore requirements, and just hand out badges that have not actually been completed, what are you leading the Scouts to expect when they get to Boy Scouts? Is it any wonder then when they expect the same treatment on Merit Badges?

 

As with Merit Badges, the Webelos den leader should use a variety of adult Activity Badge Counselors to work with the boys.

 

These counselors can be parents of the boys in the den, teachers, EMTs, even registered Boy Scout Merit Badge Counselors. Many local, state, and federal parks, and museums, have Webelos badge workshops. Many councils will hold Webelos badge camping weekends.

 

There is no reason a Webelos den leader should turn the den into an extension of the school day, or feel they must do it all themselves.

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

That's easy to say Scout Nut, but I think a lot of WDL would have a hard time scaring up a panel of Adult Activity Counselors to help them out.

 

Personally, I wouldn't hand out badges that haven't been fairly earned. I would simply ignore them unless I could make them a fun part of the program.

 

I have a good hearted Bear Den Leader who has been struggling along all year and doing a pretty good job. But I suspect he's not going to transition well into the way the Webelos program ought to be run.

 

I've been encouraging him to plan a camping program and attending our district Klondike Derby and Camporee and such, but he hasn't committed to that kind of program.

 

 

>

 

 

There are resources among the parents, but unfortunately my Bear Den Leader hasn't managed to tap them, and I can't manage his den for him.

 

If a Webelos Den Leader tries to continue a Cub Scout Program, the boys will usually drop out. My preference is to encourage a camping style program and de emphasize the pins and such if a choice has to be made.

 

I've offered to meet with my Bear DL and chat about the program over coffee, and have not been taken up on my offer. As a busy CM, my ability to oversee his program is limited.

 

The den has been gaining boys in recent months, which is great. But I'm worried about how the change to Webelos will go. If I were the WDL I believe I could get the help needed to do the job, but my Bear Den Leader hasn't managed to recruit an Assistant Den Leader this year despite my encouraging him to do so.

[ScoutNut]

A Webelos program that dispenses with the earning of awards, and just does games, camping, hiking, and other fun stuff, is fine if that is what the boys, not the leaders, want. However, the Scouts should be made aware that they will have to wait until they turn 11, or reach the end of 5th grade before they will be able to join a Boy Scout Troop.

 

If your Bear den leader can't communicate with his den parents, and can't ask for help when needed, that is not the fault of the program.

 

Recruiting den leaders and assistant den leaders is the job of the Committee Chair, the Committee, and the Cubmaster working together. If you (CM) felt the Bear den leader needed an assistant, and the Bear leader was not doing anything toward that end, you should have talked to the Committee Chair and recruited someone.

 

As for not "scaring up a panel of Adult Activity Counselors", while it might take just a bit of effort, it is not all that difficult. Pass out a BSA Parent Talent Survey to parents of the Webelos (and even the rest of the Pack) to find professions/hobbies that are useful. Attend a Roundtable and get resources from other Webelos leaders. If a Webelos den leader can't find anyone else, most councils have a Merit Badge Counselor list that they can get. They can also ask a nearby Troop (perhaps the one their Webelos will most likely be going into) for the contact info of the MB Counselors they use, or for a Den Chief.

 

It is not the fault of the Webelos program if a den leader does not want to put in any effort to finding help, and then complains about not having any.

 

 

[KISMIF_Works]

The Webelos program offers 20 different activity badges, but only a total of 8 must be earned for a boy to earn the Arrow of Light. View the 8 badges as requirements and the rest as electives. I just don't see the point in "pencil-whipping" to get a few extra badges.

 

My approach as Webelos DL was to offer a program that ensured that if a scout regularly attended den meetings and made it to at least 1 Pack campout but hopefully 1 of our Webelos overnighters, then he would fulfill the Arrow of Light requirements after 18 months (starting in September of the 1st year and ending in February of the 2nd).

 

Of the 8 activity badges 4 are required - Fitness, Citizen, Readyman and Outdoorsman. With help from my scouts we chose Craftsman, Artist, Handyman and Athlete to round out the list. I mixed in partial requirements from other badges to spice up den meetings at times (such as building a catapult - Engineer), but didn't worry about wrapping up all of the requirements for those badges in our den meetings.

 

Doing it this way freed me up to allow the scouts more time at den meetings to do things on their own. Earning the Craftsman badge the "right" way takes *several* den meetings. I felt less pressured to finish a badge on a given night. We could spend time planning for our Webelos overnighter during the den meeting before it. The scouts worked on building their own Arrow of Light plaques during the final den meetings. They loved doing it, even though no "advancement" was earned.

 

I reminded the scouts several times that they could earn the other activity badges on their own. Many of them ended up with a total of 9 (adding on Sportsman). Even though they didn't get all 20 badges, 7 of my 8 scouts stuck with the program, earned Arrow of Light, and are having a great time in their new Troop.

 

I had one scout who earned a total of about 13 of the badges. It was clear that he and his parents worked together on the badges, and they made a point of presenting the accomplishments to me so that he received his badges. Other than that I was never approached by any of the other parents asking why they "only" received 9 of the 20 available badges.

(This message has been edited by KISMIF_Works)

[BadenP]

I agree there is too much "classroom time" in many Webelos dens. As a former WDL one thing I did was to hold all our meetings at parks or other venues depending on which activity badge we were working on. It showed them why these activities were relative in the outside world instead of just reading about it in their handbook.

 

Webelos is probably the most critical juncture in a boys scouting experience and if it is not done properly and as a transitional phase to boy scouting then the boys WILL get bored and quit scouting for good. We owe them more, so get the heck outside as much as possible WDL's and make your programs come alive for the boys.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Scout Nut,

 

 

It's easy to say it's easy and no problem, but it IS a problem. I find the Webelos program to be the poorest run by a lot of packs --- too often at best it's run like another Cub Scout year. That causes boys to drop out rather commonly.

 

As Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, I had a capable Webelos Den Leader in to explain how to make the program work. This was publicized to pack leaders and I sent it to my Bear Den Leader, but he didn't attend.

 

Making that transition from Cub Scouts to Webelos is not intuitive and a lot of packs and Den Leaders don't make it work in my experience.

 

 

By contrast, KISMIF_Works obviously has run an outstanding Webelos program. My congratulations on his program!

 

 

[ScoutNut]

My experience is that the boys that tend to drop out by Webelos do so because of their leaders, not the program. They are also going into middle school with all that entails with school and their peers.

 

The leaders get bored/burned out, and start doing the minimum, or less. This makes the boys bored, and their other options start looking pretty darn good.

 

Somehow I doubt that the way that KISMIF runs his Webelos program is simply an outstanding exception to the poor to mediocre rule. Most of the Webelos dens in my area, including those in my Pack, are run this way.

 

Stop blaming the Webelos program when it is the den leaders (like your Bear DL) that just don't seem to care. Perhaps what you should do is to recruit a new Webelos den leader instead of stripping the Webelos program.

 

[BadenP]

SP & Scoutnut

 

The Webelos program is NOT complicated, the reasons many leaders feel overwhelmed is because WDL training SUCKS BIGTIME. It does not properly prepare them to deliver the kind of program Webelos need and instead teaches it as an extension of Bears which it is not. Look stop blaming burned out leaders and give them the tools they really need to start the transition process to boy scouts. Stop always meeting in a house or building reading from the book and doing crafts. Stop treating the activity badges like arrowpoints going for quantity instead of quality. Get your kids butts outside to the woods to learn about Nature, Geology, etc. and other appropriate venues for the other badges. Webelos is NOT a static sedentary program so stop treating it that way.

 

Even though I have been in Venturing for many years now I still teach WDL Training in my council. I have written a syllabus just for the class of how to make Webelos a fun and active program for both the boys and leaders, which shows them how it works.

 

So STOP blaming and start doing!

[dg98adams]

BadenP,

Care to share your syllabi for your WDL training? I have been covering it for the council the last couple years, and the one I use could use some help.

 

DG(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[SeattlePioneer]

Good kick in the pants, Scout Nut!

 

 

The Bear Den Leader has been in Scouting with his son for a year, and Den Leader since school started last fall.

 

He's had some triumphs, like a pizza baking night where the Scouts rolled out and baked their own pizzas --- THAT was a winner!

 

But too often he's been plugging away at the Bear Den requirements. We scheduled three Den Outings during the year when the dens planned their own activities rather than having the pack do that --- the Bear Den had some good outings.

 

As I mentioned, I've invited the Bear Den Leader out to talk about Scout Stuff, but had no positive response. That's left me somewhat in the dark and frustrated.

 

Perhaps I should give hima call on the phone and try to chat with him that way ---not recommended but perhaps better than nothing.

 

What he may need is an Assistant Den Leader or two who can help in planning Webelos outdoor activities. I think there are people who will help with that if encouraged and asked. I've beeen supposing that was a task best left to the Den Leader, but it hasn't happened so going on to Plan B might be best.

 

Thanks for the ideas & the kick in the pants! I have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done but was getting stuck on how to get started.

 

If I were WDL I'd be running it much like an easy Scouting program --- with meetings mostly about getting ready for the next camping trip and advancement activities a part of the camping agenda. But I'm not, and I can't really impose that kind of program on a Den Leader. I'm trying to figure out how to square that circle.

[83Eagle]

WHAT Webelos training? The online position specific that is just like the other ones for all intents?

[moosetracker]

Good one 83Eagle.. With the on-line trainings, All the den leader specific trainings are very similar.. Change the color of the beads being awarded.. The display of the book.. (I think there was one other change).. But after that, all was the same old same old.. Redundant and not worth much.

[BadenP]

For an overall viewpoint of ALL online training:

 

1)It lacks any real substance or concrete ideas to properly prepare a new scout leader to deliver a high quality program to the youth.

 

2) Its generic approach to all topics falls way short of answers to specific program questions and needs.

 

3) A lack of interchange between instructors and class members leaves a real serious gap in the learning process.

 

4)Proponents of online training over traditional training really don't want to bother to make a full committment to the position they are holding. This results in undertrained leaders, dull programs, higher dropout rates, and more units in trouble than ever before. But it is more convienent for leaders who think they are too busy to bother with traditional training. If that was really true then they should not be volunteering in the first place.

 

5) All online training as the PRIMARY training of scouters is basically WORTHLESS!!!