No Den Leaders & no help coming

[noname]

We are only 11 kids with 7 families. No one will help out and the only den leader stepped down. We do have webeloes covered but he does everything on his own and will not work with the others. Any ideas motovating the others? Should I look outside the group and to whom for help? At the pinewood I passed around a signup for help to over 60 adults after the speech of 'it is easier to build a boy than fix a man' Came back empty and 2/3rds of the group left the pack after the B and G. Council is aware and when I told them face to face they couldnt even look me in the eye or give me direction on where to get help. Can you scout on this board help a scout out?

[BadenP]

noname

 

Who is on your charter as den leaders and where are they? Sounds like it is time for a parents meeting and get your unit commisioner and DE to help you organize and deliver it. The message is simple either some of them come forward to help or the boys will not have a scouting program. Your DE and UC can talk to them about training and how fun the program can be. Your DE can not afford to lose a unit so he will be fighting hard to save the pack. One trick I used as a DE was to partner two parents to act as co-leaders so neither felt the whole burden was on them. It can be done, it may not be easy, it is all on how you sell the program to them.

[moosetracker]

Greeting noname of the no help Pack.. Who are you CM or CC? Besides you is there anyone else? I know you have no DL's.. but committee? Assistant CM's??..

 

Of 11 kids how did you get a Pinewood of 60?? Even if that large the best you had for turnout of parents were 22.. Excluding you & the one Webelos DL 20.. And that is given the unreality of everyone haveing a 2 parent home..

 

So really your pool of volunteers is maybe more like 10 to 15..

 

The honest truth is few outside of your pack will get involved.. There may be a few who love kids.. But to motivate outsiders there needs to be a great program, and parents on board.. Few people want to spend time bailing out a sinking ship for those who are too self-centered to at least make an effort to try for themselves..

 

You may be trying, but all your deadbeat other parents are not.. Truthfully it is not a program that will attract outsiders with no kids in the program themselves..

 

But.. If you want to try, who is your COR?.. If a church or school you can appeal to the church members, or to the members of the PTA..

 

Otherwise.. It is not just doing a grand speech where everyone listens and expects the other guy to take up the reins. It is figuring out who would be a good canidate and going up to them in a one-on-one to ask.. Or you can ask with cubbie around, and hope the boy will turn and look at Daddy or Mommy and say "Wow.. Can you be our Den Leader? that would be awsome!.."

 

They may say "No", but it is harder for them to say NO, with a one on one.. Much easier for them to be asked within a crowd and not raise their hand.

 

Because the ship is sinking, few want to volunteer, for fear you are not asking for one item.. But you will then try to reel them in to way too much that they can handle.. They do not want to be the one forced to hold up the sinking ship.. So you must ask them for one thing, and let them know that one thing is all they will be asked to do. And mean it..

 

Figure out what you really really need, and what you can let go of.. And get people to do the neccessary and let go of the other things. When folks complain hand them the registration form. "Thanks for volenteering to take that on"..

 

If it is you only, your pack may be taking it's dying breath and be to late to revive. You can try, but if NO ONE, will help.. Pick your son up and take him to another pack where he can have a great program.. You can only do so much. But, your son deserves a great program, and it can not come on the back of one person holding up a bunch of deadbeats..

 

Give it your best shot, if it does not work out look for the door.. Look up the user AnnLaurelB who is having similar issues..

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=311848#id_311848

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=311875#id_311875

 

Also there is a thread called "The one man show" going on right now..

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=318527

 

Bottom line you are not alone.. But once you get to only having one or two people you are in serious trouble, and it is very hard to pull the sinking ship up at this point.

[ScoutNut]

Welcome Noname!

 

What is your Charter Organization? Who is the Charter Organization Representative?

 

What is your position with the Pack? How long have you been a member?

 

How old is this Pack?

 

The Pack was doing pretty good, prior to B&G where you lost two thirds of your Scouts, with about 33 Scouts. What happened? Why did so many leave?

 

You need to find out why your Pack fell apart before you can put it back together again. Those problems have to be corrected.

 

The Charter Organization Representative(COR), Committee Chair(CC), Cubmaster(CM), and the Pack's Unit Commissioner(UC), need to get together to decide how best to help the Pack.

 

HINT: Passing around sign-up sheets, and doing mass cattle calls for help rarely works. The folks who would be a best fit for a specific position need to be identified, and approached individually. Know the job's parameters and responsibilities, and make sure to have plenty of help for them available.

 

[83Eagle]

HINT: Passing around sign-up sheets, and doing mass cattle calls for help rarely works. The folks who would be a best fit for a specific position need to be identified, and approached individually.

 

I agree.

 

BUT...the question is how do you identify those people? In a Pack of 11 like noname has, it might be easier, but even so you still do not know the talents of everyone. This was something I ran into...simply not knowing who to approach other than the few people who always seemed willing to help.

 

So, where sheets could work, even here, is to distribute a talent survey. You can use the BSA one but I found it not 100% relevant so I created one customized for our pack.

 

I passed these out at a meeting and asked for them to be returned. Then I looked at who did not turn them in, wrote their name at the top of another sheet, and handed it directly to them at the next pack meeting.

 

On that sheet in addition to interests I had spots for what people were willing to do. I had a surprising number of people volunteer for things just based on that, including getting a half dozen people for a new fundraising committee.

 

Either way, getting the form back gives you valuable information you can use to specifically identify certain people who have particular abilities and backgrounds. And if you get back a blank, but signed, form, well that tells you a lot too.

[ScoutLass]

Our pack had adult volunteer issues for a number of years. The current CM, whom I taking over from this summer, managed to finally get enough volunteers to step up for next year that we finally have all the major bases covered. A few pointers, I'll try not to reiterate what others have said:

 

1) I'm going to guess the pack doesn't have a strong summer program. This will likely result in more boys dropping over the summer. The good thing--you get to start over in the fall with all new families and set the expectations for adult involvement right from roundup. The bad thing--you are fully dependent on roundup and fall recruiting to get the pack numbers up to a survivable level.

 

2)Never let them see you sweat. Very few adults are going to sign on to what they perceive as a sinking ship, since expect it will be more work than it's worth to try and bail it out. Do as much organizing for meeting and pack events as possible behind the scenes in the beginning so everything runs smoothly once it's in the "public eye." Parents are more willing to pitch in when they see things running well.

 

3) If you aren't already, get thee to roundtable. Become a familiar face and other volunteers and district scouters naturally become more interested in helping you succeed.

 

4) Always ask volunteers face-to-face and individually. My method, which works well for me, is to approach a prospect with two jobs. "Hey, I see how great you interact with the boys at pack meetings. The boys need a wolf den leader and we could use someone to help plan the Blue and Gold. Which one would you prefer helping out with?" I give two options, and one of the options is never "sorry, I can't."

 

5) Get thee some den chiefs. Request some den chiefs from a couple local troops. Cubs look up to and respect their den chiefs, and they provide much needed help to your leaders. They also take some of the effort of a great pack meeting off the back of the CM, since den chiefs usually love to sing and put on skits with the younger kids.

 

6) Start off small so you don't scare away potential volunteers. Don't recruit leaders just yet. Instead, recruit some helpers. Schedule pack-style den meetings where the cubs are divided into their rank groups but are working on similar requirements at meetings. Plan the meeting and provide supplies. Ask an adult from each group to help supervise the group. "It's just temporary until we get a leader." Do this for a couple meetings. If the meetings are organized and enjoyable for both the adults and boys, it's usually easier to then ask request the adult to become a leader. They've had a taste of what's expected of them, it wasn't that difficult, so sure! Don't cut 'em loose then, though, or you may lose them. Continue to provide some support as needed.

 

7) Set the expectation from the beginning that all families are expected to volunteer some time to help the pack go. This is once again taking away the option to say no. Have a variety of volunteer positions, including those that are one-on-one with the boys and more time intensive (like leaders), to those that are less time intensive or one-offs (B&G planning committee, newsletter typist).

 

8) Give perks to leader or volunteer families. I've seen this work successfully in a couple packs. For example, the pack covers registration for one boy in each leader's family, or provides handbooks for leader and volunteer kids. Set the rules as to who qualifies for these perks from the get-go to avoid hurt feelings later.

 

9) Finally, recognize the volunteers you have and those that you acquire. People are more likely to give their time when they feel appreciated. Award leader's knots as they are earned, give thank you cards and tokens, and say thank you often!

[Eamonn]

No noname.

And Eamonn are not the same person.

In case anyone was thinking.

Ea.

[fred8033]

I had a similar situation a few years ago when our house was assigned to a new school, our former Tiger / new Wolf cub joined their pack. I volunteered in the fall and all the leaders quit at the B&G, a natural transition time. I didn't realize the pack had trouble. The adults were burnt out from starting a new pack and just waiting for someone to step forward to continue the pack. They felt abandoned by their council. The pack dropped to just below twenty kids from 60+. We are back at 60+ cubs now, but it took three or so years.

 

From my experience...

 

- AT-LARGE CALLS FOR VOLUNTEERS DOESN'T WORK. It's too much like using guilt trips. It's a self-defeating method and destructive to the mood and moral of the pack.

 

- SIMPLIFY YOUR CALENDAR until things turn around. Do the critical stuff. Pack meetings. Den meetings. Attend summer camp. Keep it simple. KEEP IT FUN. Let the other things go. You might even consider shutting down the pack (except attending summer camps) and starting fresh in the fall.

 

- DROP THE ACTIVITY if you don't have a volunteer... including canceling the pinewood derby, pack family overnights, special events and even Blue and Gold.

 

 

- CONSIDER ALTERNATIVES

 

----- EXAMPLE: If you don't have enough people to run a big Blue and Gold, just find a simple fun spot (open area tables at a community center, indoor park, outdoor park, ... ideally free) get a few pizzas and wa-la you have a blue and gold banquet. Just find a way to get everyone together in a quiet corner for a few minutes for awards, cross over and normal pack meeting stuff)

 

----- EXAMPLE: If you don't have enough people to run your own pinewood derby, your pack attends the district pinewood derby. Warn the district why you are doing it though. Just say that essentially because of small membership numbers, your pack can't run their own derby and that your pack qualifies all your cubs to advance to districts. When your pack grows, start doing your own derby again.

 

 

 

HERE ARE THE TWO KEYS that I saw helping our pack recover to the best pack I've ever seen.

 

- Get the adults to socialize, become friends and enjoy each other's company. The goal is to bond and make the volunteering fun, fulfilling and not a burden. Heck, if it works .... you make life long friends. The best part is that people will volunteer to help a friend without even being asked. The easiest way is to invite everyone out for a quick drink after every monthly committee meeting.

 

- (this goes opposite to what I said earlier) The more busy and full the pack schedule, the more families you will recruit and retain and the more volunteers you will get. Parents want their kids busy with things that develop their values, skills, friends and gets them out of the house. People want to volunteer to be part of a successful program. Our pack tries to have a pack meeting each month, one or two den meetings per den and at least once major pack event each month. Sep - Family overnight camp. Oct - Halloween party. Nov - Volunteer service event. Dec - Varied. Jan - Ice skating party. Jan - Sledding event. Feb - council day camp. Feb Blue and Gold. march - pinewood derby. April & May - varied. June - family pack overnight. Jun/Jul/Aug - School garden cleanup nights, summer camps, pack picnic... By varied I mean, pack visits to planitariums, magic shows, nature centers, train museums and almost anything we can find.

 

 

[noname]

thanks for the help. I have to disagree with those that say a general call for help wont work. All of my helpful answers were from those that answered such a general call. We all are here on our free will just as we are leaders by choice. It all goes back to folks will do what folks want to do. Like the little leaque baseball team that has too many coaches- rather help for few weeks than help for a lifetime as scouting does...

[moosetracker]

All of my helpful answers were from those that answered such a general call.

 

Not really, you asked in a forum where we as a group have chosen to be here and learn from others while we try to help others.. We already are bitten by the scouting bug.. It is like walking into a room of people who are already at a meeting to coordinate a Council Jamboree and asking "Who wants to do something to organize the Jamboree.." Since they are all there for that purpose, they may ask for specifics, because they don't want to volunteer for trash duty.. But, otherwise, they will volenteer to help.

 

We are all checking the board daily to see who to help, and if we have anything to say will throw it out.. Then if no one shows up, we just banter with each other..

 

Your parents are there to drop off their children for baby sitting, not to be the baby sitter.. So when asked to volunteer will sink down in their seat and look anywhere that will not make eye contact with you.

 

They are not bitten by the scouting bug.

[SeattlePioneer]

Another reason to avoid general appeals for volunteers is....

 

the wrong person can volunteer. That can REALLY be a disaster!

 

The general recommendation is to carefully identify the BEST PERSON to fill a position --- and ask that person!

 

 

Can you really afford to have ANYone assigned important responsibilities, or do you need the BEST person to do those tasks?

 

If you reaqlly go for the best person, you can often get them to agree. They will KNOW they are the right person for the job, and that makes a difference.

[ScoutNut]

Getting replies on a forum that folks have joined just so that they CAN answer questions, help folks, and learn new things in return, is NOT the same as getting an unwilling person to volunteer to be den leader by passing out a sign-up list to 60 people.

 

As you stated, you tried it at your B&G, and it did not work. Out of 60 adults you got 0 volunteers on the sign-up sheet.

 

BSA recommends identifying the best choices for the position, then sending 1 or 2 folks, armed with any and all information about the position that could be needed, to ask the Pack's choices face to face. You start asking the best choice, and if they don't agree you go down the list to #2, and so on until you have a yes.

 

Here is BSA's "Selecting Cub Scout Leadership" from the BSA National Web site -

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-500.pdf

 

 

[noname]

I thank every one of you for all of the help. I'll let you know how it all works out. Do your best.

[AnnLaurelB]

NoName;

 

I'm just catching up around here after taking the summer "off".

 

Your Pack sounds very much like mine. Good folks, but NO ONE willing to put on that uniform once a week!

 

Hang in there. Sometimes you have to play a little hardball. We are going to have a come-to-Jesus Pack/all-Den meeting in a few weeks, with a BIG flip-chart listing several positions that MUST be filled...or we'll be handing out Youth Apps and a list of other Packs in the area.

 

Period.

 

(All presented in a cheerful, fun-loving, optomistic fashion, of course.)