Muslim Scout?

[Lisabob]

Jamist649 asks Why not...

 

My answer: Because kids who are in the minority hate being made tokens. Particularly those who are used to being harassed - as is sadly common for many Muslim kids all over America - just need a chance to be kids, to be friends, and not to have to represent their group or "teach" others about themselves or anything like that. Let them be kids - end of story.

 

And Scoutfish, this: "After 9-11 especially, any dark skined person was harrassed for possibly being Muslim..even when it was completely obvious they were Hispanic, ASian, Indian, etc..."

 

 

is unfortunately NOT reserved to the South. My young man, who tans exceedingly well, has endured unbelievable racism and vitriol at school, in scouting, and in the local community. He is not Muslim and he is not of Middle Eastern descent - he just has dark hair & slightly tan skin.

 

Jamist, I hope you will ruthlessly cut off any adult who makes such ignorant comments as the one you quoted (which I believe, and which is probably fairly common). You have no idea how damaging that crap is to kids when they have to put up with it day in and day out - worse, when they expect scout leaders to stand up to it and they are let down, instead. Please protect this boy from that sort of adult garbage. I ask you that as a mom who can't stand seeing how hurt her boy has been by this stuff.

[Trevorum]

Jamist649, it may help if you recognize that Allah, Jehovah, and Yahweh are just different names for the same God. The three Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are each derived from the same Old Testament source and worship the same deity.

[shortridge]

I just want to open a few eyes and show these folks that they have something to offer instead of something to fear.

 

These parents don't want their boy to be a "lesson" to counter ignorance and stupidity. They want him to be a Cub Scout. And if you're thinking about his membership from any other perspective than that - how can I serve this new Scout? - you're going about it all wrong. Sorry if that raises your dander, but you asked for ideas, and that's mine.

 

No one joining a new group, especially a kid, wants to be held up as an example of "the different," even if it's done subtly. If you approach the involvement of this young Cub and his family from this point of view, you're going to lose them pretty quickly. If the boy or his parents WANT to VOLUNTARILY give a presentation about their faith or family or heritage or culture or practices, that's GREAT. More power to them. But don't single him out.

 

Another way to think about it. Would you have asked the same question if your pack was made up entirely of evangelical Protestant members, and a lone Catholic boy wanted to join?

[Scoutfish]

I don't think Jamist means to say that this scout is going to be a shining examople or a lesson tool.

 

But, as you said : "The fact that this little boy is Muslim is just one thing about who he is, just like being Christian is one part of who most of the members of your pack are. He's probably also a comic book fan, a soccer player and a video game expert, just like most of the other kids in your pack"

 

I think that was Jamists point" Once other people saw him as just being a regular person, then they would realize he is just another person. At that point, people might open their eyes to the world around them. Just because somebody is a Muslim is no reason to freak out and maybe our own stereotypes and predjudices will go away.

 

Besides, what else can you do? Say : "Sorry, you can't join because people will either hate you or see you being used as an educational tool....which is offensive either way.

 

Jamist is just saying that they are welcoming a Muslim scout into the pack and wants to be sure they do not inadvertantly offend this boy or family. Meanwhile, at the same time, other people could learn their own predjudices are unfounded.

[jamist649]

Thanks for your replies. I'm not going to allow myself to be irritated by the misconeptions about my motives. Just as I would never single out a black/white/hispanic child becuase he has "something to offer" I certainly won't do it with this one. I never said I wanted this family to act as an educational tool, I simply wanted ideas as to how to intergrate them into the Pack...and if-at the same time-we learn that there is nothing to fear about dark skinned people who pray 5 times a day on a prayer mat, then so be it. Good Lord, I love this forum, but some of ya'll had rather argue than eat.

 

Thank you Scoutfish for paraphrasing what I was truly trying to say. I want to WELCOME him becuase I believe in the proven program of Scouting...nothing more. The fact that I even started this thread should serve as evidence to that. If I didn't care, I would have let him join, allowed his family to attend our pig pickin', hear about Baptisims, and drop. I want this to work...seriously.

 

 

 

[shortridge]

All right, try these simple steps.

 

1. Talk to his parents.

2. Welcome the kid into your pack.

 

If you want, add an item 1(a) - "Read up on Islam." But that's optional.

 

My whole point is that you don't NEED to do "anything special" to "integrate" this family into your pack. Give the kid a handshake and offer his parents an adult volunteer application. He and his family will take care of discussing differences if they want to. If the idiot parent you spoke of is a reflection of your area's population in general, they are probably already experts at dealing with that type of ignorant behavior anyway. If they have concerns about conflicts with prayer times or problems with fasting (and some kids don't fast during Ramadan, anyway), they'll come to you or the DL.

 

And that's it.

 

I don't think anyone's questioning your motives; you sound like you're trying to do the right thing. What I'm questioning is your approach - how you're doing it. *You* were the one who said you were excited about the family joining because they will "hopefully do alot to show that not all Muslims are extremists/terorists." There's simply no need in this day and age to bring that up. I don't care if you're locatedin the most backwater county in the U.S. - bigotry has no place in Scouting. The challenge is not on the Muslim family to "integrate," but on the current adults and pack leadership to openly and loudly reject the idea that not all Scouts are equal because they look / speak / worship differently.

 

I will end by quoting Lisabob, whose comments are spot-on: "Treat him just like you treat every single other boy in the pack. If religious questions or issues come up, ask his parents to provide input. It is no different from having a Hindu, Jewish, or Buddhist boy (or Southern Baptist, or Catholic, or whatever) in your pack."

[Oak Tree]

also offensive is holding up a single family as representing an entire racial, ethnic, cultural or religious group.

 

I'd say that every individual represents their racial, ethnic, cultural and religious groups. If I think about what it's like to have Jews in a troop, I think of the actual Jews who have been in the troop. There are some things that are common across groups - that's what starts prejudice, but that's also what allows statistical sampling techniques to work, too. What's it like to have Hindus? We have a number of those. Another thread asked about Jehovah's Witnesses. Sorry if you don't like it, but people will draw conclusions from your behavior. You fit into a pattern, most likely.

 

I think that Scoutfish's comment and jamist649's approach are fine - it's a reasonable goal to get people to meet an actual Muslim. It's harder to retain prejudicial stereotypes when you actually know people who are from the group but don't fit the stereotype.

 

It's hard to hide your religion completely, especially if you actual follow the precepts, and particularly if you require certain food. We always try to have vegetarian options available when we have vegetarian Scouts. Or we might have Scouts who will eat meat but not beef. Or other Scouts who eat beef but not pork. On the other hand, we've had Jews who loved bacon. But for the most part, you get some pretty strong hints about people's religion. And people do draw conclusions. If you don't want people to draw conclusions about you, don't get to know any actual people.

[jamist649]

Shortridge, I know you just did not call me a bigot. I hope I'm reading that wrong. Please elaborate...

[shortridge]

No, not at all, and I'm sorry if it read that way. I was referring to the mindset that all Muslims are extremists or terrorists who will blow themselves up in a tent on a Cub Scout camping trip.

[qwazse]

I have known many muslims who have been blessed (their words, not mine) by Christian endeavors. One of them was a couple whose son was in cub scouts. This particular couple, having a high regard for Christians, would expect you to act, well, Christian toward their children. They understood the differences in religion, but in no way thought Allah and God were two different beings. So, don't bother changing one word in an English oath to make it "politically correct."

 

If the boy wound up at a church service (scout Sunday, for instance), you'd make it clear that he didn't have to sing/say anything his family didn't believe was true. You might also have to explain that communion was only for believers because it was a way of saying their belief. Beyond that, no worries.

 

[in fact I find it grating when Christian teachers refer to the "God of the Old Testament" vs. "God of the New Testament". The distinction is rather contrived.]

 

There are other muslims who wouldn't dare darken the door of a church. Families like that probably would need a little more special attention -- letting them know up front that you would not intentionally do something to offend their sensibilities. But, I don't think that's the issue here.

[JoeBob]

Jamist said: "Good Lord, I love this forum, but some of ya'll had rather argue than eat."

 

Amen.

The forum did take your simple request: "Does anyone have any experience with a Scout who is Muslim?", and disect it right down to the cellular level...

 

 

 

[jamist649]

Oh, ok...Thanks.

[Herms]

jamist649,

 

Interesting responses here. I'd take him like any other kid. You can also use the term "God", doesn't have to be "Allah".

 

Jews, Christians and Muslims ALL believe in the SAME God, the God of Abraham!!