Son, Ah say Son...Do you mean to tell me...

[Scoutfish]

... who can't put on jacket when it's cold or a raincoat when it's raining if mom isn't there to tell 'em to.

 

Yeah, that's a mom thing too. Most of thjose kids are running around and creating enough heat that they aren't cold anyways...but you know how it is...they might catch their death of cold!

 

[Lisabob]

Ahem...

 

About the bike...

 

Can't get my son to ride one. Never could. This bothers his dad (who competes in semi-pro road races) to no end. It doesn't bother me that much, except I feel kind of bad that he has never experienced the freedom that bike riding can provide to kids. I'd be more worried if he couldn't swim, but he has been a regular fish since he was very small.

 

The truth is, when he was little, he didn't want to lose control, and so he wouldn't get up enough speed to maintain his balance. It didn't seem to matter what people told him - he was not going to do it. And when he was older and understood why a little speed would be a good thing, he was embarrassed and avoided the subject. We live in an area where you can walk to a lot of places, so he has gotten by without really needing a bike.

 

Actually, he was talking about learning (in secret) this summer, because the boys are going to a scout camp where pretty much everybody rides to get around the camp grounds. We'll see.

 

(he can dress himself just fine, though. And he cooks pretty well, too. )

[Eamonn]

While I'm not an expert on parenting or child development, I think as parents we set expectations for our kids and worry when they lag behind or fail to live up to them.

I remember my Mother-In-Law going on about how HWMBO was potty trained by the time she only a year old.Being as she didn't walk till sometime after that? I'm still working on that one.

Mother-In-Law dear, was also worried when my son wasn't talking by the time she expected and saying that there was something wrong with that kid. Of course like most kids he started to talk in his own good time and hasn't shut up since.

That kid got into a fight in first grade and the way his teacher a nun carried on, I feared he was going to be the next ax murderer.

School report cards, weren't used just as a tool to see how he was doing, but shared with other parents in some stupid game of one-up man-ship.

Back when I was teaching I remember parents coming to me upset because their kid didn't get an A and even though a C was average it was never seen as being OK to be average.

While our son was busy trying his best to be a kid, we his parents stressed through his growing up. Of course we wanted him to be the best and tried hard to make him the best were wasted on him, he was busy. Busy just being him.

Dreams that one day he might be president or find a cure for cancer faded by the time he was about ten. While maybe we never said it out loud? The truth was and is that he is average.

He somehow worked out what he wanted to do, found a way of doing it and a plan to get to where he wants to be.

Maybe it's not the plan or the place that his Mother and I dreamed of, but it's his. He has ownership of it. He and he alone determines what happens.

We only had the one child, so parenting for us was a one shot deal.

I now can look back and see how silly it was to stress over time lines of things that now just seem silly.

The report cards are in a box someplace and serve not as brag sheet, but fond memories of what he was doing at that time and all too often the hot water he managed to land himself in.

As for " Son, Ah say Son...Do you mean to tell me... " I as his father can now say I just don't care! We got to where we are and that journey would have been better if we had not worried about trying to please others or tried to live up to their expectations.

So far it doesn't look like he is ever going to be president, but I'm more happy that it also looks like he isn't going to be an ax murderer either.

Ea.

[AnnLaurelB]

I think part of it is that when I was growing up, we wandered around on our own. We had bikes, and *gasp!* we rode them AWAY from the house. We earned a quarter and rode to Thrifty Drugs to get an ice cream cone. All. By. Ourselves.

 

So of COURSE we had to learn our Name, Rank and Serial Number. But today's kids are so INSULATED. They are NEVER without an adult trundling after them (and there are societal reasons that this has happened; I understand that).

 

But still. Part of Cub Scouts IS conforming to "others' expectations." The 12 Core Values are what? They are ...VALUES... which are *subjective*. But as SCOUTERS, we have agreed that WE value these things, and want to instill them in our children.

 

I was reading old threads last night, and was fascinated by the one about the SM banning cell phones, and a parent saying he disagreed with that, so told his son to carry one, anyway because NOT having one violated his "family" policy.

 

Well, if you join a Pack or a Troop, part of that means that you accept the leadership, program, and policy decisions of those in charge. If I require my Wolfies to know their name, address, and phone number ... well, *I AM* the deliverer of THIS program.

 

And if I'm going to haul other peoples' children around on MY time, it is perfectly reasonable to me that I require those kids to have BASIC knowledge of their vital statistics.

 

On the OTHER hand, I *do* agree that sometimes we spend TOO much time sweating the "small" stuff. We need to prioritize!

[kari_cardi]

Actually, AnnLaurelB, I logged in this morning to tell you that I disagree with you about the need for elementary age children to know their home address. In the example you gave, where a child is separated at a festival, knowing an address isn't needed. He wouldn't even need to know the name of his parents or phone numbers as long as his parents realized he was missing and had alerted the security team. Why would a kid be returned home if his parents are at the festival where he was lost?

 

If you are taking scouts on a field trip where you might be separated, I'd suggest making sure each scout has your information, like a cell phone number. That makes more sense to me than having a scout get lost, call his parents, etc. when you are the person in charge on the spot.

 

And I would like to suggest that as scout leaders, we do not have the discretion to add any requirement we feel necessary. There are boundaries. If you had given my son that homework, I would have resented the implied criticism of my parenting. You see it as necessary, I do not. We are both scout leaders. Who is right? As far as I am concerned, I am, for my family. I'd have my kid do it because I would not see it as a hill to die on, there is no harm in knowing an address, but that isn't the same as agreement.

 

And Beavah, I agree, men are getting a bad rap as 'unsafe' people and we are doing our children a disservice when we teach them that only women and police officers are safe. I know that men are more likely to be sexual predators, yadda yadda yadda. The person most likely to abuse a child is that child's mother. Maybe we should take kids from their parents just in case, because you never know. Right?

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Sasha,

 

 

Teaching children basic information such as their parents name and address seems like a good idea to me.

 

Lots of Scouting requirements could be taken as implied criticism of parenting, if a parent wants to take it that way.

 

Actually, I think a good deal of Scouting winds up teaching parents improved ways to parent children. That's not an explicit goal of Scouting, but I think parents can hardly not notice the ability of a Scout leader to quiet a large bunch of boys with a non verbal gesture, to mention just one thing.

[AnnLaurelB]

Ok. I getcha! :0)

 

That's just me, and I was piggy-backing thread about the SM who had absolutely banned cell phones from camp outs, but one dad decided to tell his son to ignore that edict. There was a long (lo-o-ong!) thread about *very* differing ideas on that issue, which I found interesting.

 

Which prompted my original question about what the various leaders here had (personally) found *surprising* in what their Cubbies knew or didn't know. For me, it came a shock that EVERY kid wasn't taught at least his own phone number from the time he could talk.

 

Different for you? I'm totally ok with that. :0)

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

Possible scenario for sasha...

 

School trip to museum. Boy decides to go to restroom right when everyone else is leaving. School chaperone botches the count because two kids were moving around while engaged in a plastic dinosaur fight. Boy left at museum. No women with strollers. Boy exits museum and wanders several blocks of the city looking for woman with stroller. Eventually finds friendly security guard on lunch break who he thinks is a policeman. Boy doesn't know address, doesn't know phone number, doesn't know parents full name (which is different from his last name because of women's lib or divorce or whatever).

 

Now what?

 

Yeh can imagine any number of situations where it might be necessary for a lad to know enough information to be able to direct someone to contact/take him home.

 

Beavah

 

[AnnLaurelB]

(*laughs long and loud*)

 

I love the internets! ;0)

[kari_cardi]

Well, I must not have much of an imagination. Again, in the case of field trips, children are regularly labeled with contact information for the organization, not for the parents. If a child is left behind from a field trip, I feel confident that the museum (zoo, farm, whatever) will have contact information for the organizer and will contact that person as soon as possible so that arrangements can be made to pick the kid up.

 

I am not saying that children should not be taught these things. I am addressing the judgement of parents who have not taught this basic information. It must be more common than not since the AnnLaurelB's whole den didn't know. A quick survey of some friends who are parents plus the extra kids in my home indicates the same - spotty, imperfect knowledge of home address and phone numbers. The reason? The information isn't important. It seems like it should be, I agree, but it isn't.

 

I cannot come up with a scenario where the only thing keeping my child from being reunited with me is his ability to recite his parent's name and address. Well, short of a major disaster and even then it would be a matter of time. I can see that children who come from disadvantaged homes where no one might notice that they are missing might need their address as part of their survival skill set. But that is as far as my imagination takes me.

 

 

[AnnLaurelB]

Requirement 2 on the Wolf Trail (not a suggestion, a Requirement to earn Rank):

 

"a. Make a list of phone numbers you need in case of an emergency. Put a copy of this list by each phone or in a central place in your home. Update it often.

b. Tell what to do if someone comes to the door and wants to come in.

c. Tell what to do if someone calls on the phone."

 

To me, it seems a perfectly reasonable addendum to this Requirement that the kid know his own phone number and address.

 

Just. In. Case.

 

Edit: What about if he has to call 911? What if the caller ID system FAILS and he can't freakin' TELL the 911 person WHERE MOMMY IS LAYING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS?

 

Just. In. Case.(This message has been edited by annlaurelb)

[CCbytrickery]

Sasha, you must have a very...non vivid...imagination. I envy you that. I truly do. See, I have a fertile imagination, and sometimes it leads me places I dread.

 

I have had nightmares about my young child getting lost--at the zoo, the museum, when they're out with dad, pretty much any place I'm not--and being unable to get help because they don't know their name or address or phone number. If they can't tell the nice policeman "I'm A-- W-- and my daddy is L-- and my mommy is J-- and I know our number is 9-------- (including area code)", what happens?

 

What if I am unconscious and the home phone isn't working? How is my 7 year old supposed to call for help on the cell, since it doesn't have a location associated with it in the 911 system?

 

What if we are hit with a hurricane (we're in FL) and we get separated, for whatever reason? Who can they go to for help?

 

My kids are prepared--not for everything that may happen--but they know not only the home numbers, but cell phones as well (well, not my husband's new one, we are learning that right now, it's only a few weeks old); the home address, including city and state; mom and dad full names; and their full names and birthdays. My oldest is 21, 2nd is almost 18 and 3rd is 7; and they've all been coached on these things since they were able to know what a number was.

 

Also, they have a small, basic knowledge of first aid (how to stop bleeding using pressure, call 911 if it doesn't stop, etc) and the older ones can start a fire (which the 7 year old will be learning this year at our family campouts) if need be. They are also learning how to cook and clean house, and how to budget their money. Yes, at 7. Because these things take years to learn, and if you don't start young enough, you have 21 year olds in college running up $$$$$$$ in credit cards and eating nothing but ramen noodles and living in piles of garbage. Because someone else isn't doing it for them...

 

The only reason, in my humble opinion, for a child not being able to recite where they live or their phone numbers is a disability. Otherwise, it shouldn't be an issue by no later than 1st grade. Just as they should know not to get in a strangers car or eat the black jelly beans...

 

Sorry, I'll hop off the soapbox now.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Reminds me of a time when I was maybe 4 years old (if that).. My sister (11 months older then me, but shy and would not talk to anyone), while on a camping trip with our parents and older sister (6 years older then me), decided to go off to by a pretty sail boat we saw in the bay with candy cane striped sails, with our 2 pennies..

 

Well we walked around and got very, very lost.. (I don't think we were too too lost as my older sister found us, told us we had to get back to the campsite, then disappeared and we were again lost.. very very lost..)

 

So after wandering around for - like - ever... We found a forest ranger.. So up we go to the forest ranger, and my 11 mth older sister would not say a peep, so it was up to me.. I told him we were lost and could he get us back to our campsite.. "So what are your parents names?" he asks me.. I proudly respond.. "Mommy and Daddy".. I don't even think I knew our last name, I did though now my sister's & my first name..

 

Well eventually when we did not return after a long time from when my oldest sister found us, then left us again my parents did put out search for us and the ranger was able to re-unite us..

 

Don't know if my address would have helped, but knowing my parents names certainly would have.

 

Never did get our candy-cane striped boat we figured the owners would happily sell to us for our 2 cents though.

 

I think this was the same trip where we stayed with friends in an army style circus tent, I got lost in the tent.. Didn't need to know my parents names to get out of that one though, I just stood in the tent and cried until my mother rescued me from the tent..

 

I guess I got lost alot..

[AnnLaurelB]

@ Moosetracker -- Fabulous story!

 

@ Trickery -- ~*STANDING OVATION*~

[SSScout]

Oh, it can happen. Happened to me. Three times.

#1. Fourth grade trip. Local museum. No, I'm sorry, it was the fire house...We walked to it, as I remember. Walking back, I ended up as the tail end charlie (didn't know the term then), and missed the turn to the school. Teacher didn't miss me until they got all the way back to the class room. But I did what my folks had taught me, when I realized I was lost, I stayed in one place until the teacher and principal found me in a short while. Oh, and I knew my address and phone number (still do, come to think of it. Walker 4- 9724...)

#2. Newly minted Boy Scout... 5th grade. Whole Troop went downtown to the Warner Theater to see "Ben Hur" at Easter time. Went by parents cars. My folks were busy, so I rode with another group. After the movie, somebody miscounted and I AND a buddy were left behind. Sunday afternoon in DC, we thought, wow, what an adventure. We counted our joint finances, decided we didn't have enough for a taxi, didn't know the bus routes, but we did know what street we were on and which way home was (we are Scouts, right?). ummm. We could walk. No, better call our folks and let them know. Theater manager would'nt let us use his phone! I remember that! So we had to use the pay phone. We had enough nickles and dimes for that. Had to wait almost two hours for one of our parents to come get us. I understand my dad had a polite conversation with someone about this, but accidents will happen.

#3. Much later Scout trip. Pack up, clear camp, I'm the Patrol Leader. I tell my buddies to go ahead, I have to pack my tent yet, meet me at the trail head, a mile down the trail. My mistake there. Later, when I'm at the trail head, I discover , they've left without me! Umm, weell no worry, I'm self contained, I hike the three miles out to the main road, and lo and behold, Mr. Walters has had second thoughts, and comes back looking for me.

 

Any other stories out there to share?