Son, Ah say Son...Do you mean to tell me...

[AnnLaurelB]

The thread about what ages of Cub Scouts can/should do as far as cooking on campouts made me think of something. I wanted to answer, "Yes, I would think by at LEAST Web2, a boy should be able to puzzle out some BASIC cooking, even if NOT in Scouts."

 

And that leads me to mention that I was stunned, *STUNNED* when 3 out of 6 of my Wolves ~didn't know their own addresses~. We were working on the Reading/Writing Beltloop, and they were supposed to write me a "proper" letter (on the form I gave them), then address the envelope CORRECTLY.

 

I gave them all samples of what their envelope should look like, but instructed them (as we sat around a table) to write their OWN name and address in the proper place. 3 of them had NO IDEA what their OWN address was. Not even close. "What do you MEAN you're almost through with 2nd grade and you DON'T KNOW YOUR ADDRESS?!?" I taught my son this from the time he could speak, practically.

 

I sent a text to the Wolf parents that night, with "homework" for the next Den meeting. I said that 2nd graders, never mind Cub Scouts, should DEFINITELY know: 1) A parent or guardian's FULL NAME, 2) That person's phone number WITH area code, 3) Their FULL ADDRESS including city (we're rural; it matters).

 

At the next Den meeting, I started quizzing them. I said, "Okay, so we all go to the Widget Festival downtown. You get separated from the group. What do you do?" They knew they should find a policeman (or a mommy with a stroller is a good bet, too, I told them). Okay, good.

 

"But what do you TELL the policeman? Do you think he KNOWS where you live or who your parents are? Does he just KNOW what your dad's cell phone number is? Some of your moms don't have your name, either. HOW does the policeman help you get home if you can't tell him WHERE OR TO WHOM you belong?"

 

I quizzed all 6 of them popcorn style, and they seemed much improved, but honestly, I was still stunned that I'd had to teach 2nd graders (and their parents) that they should know their address and phone number. Jeez.

 

What have you been surprised that you've had to explain/teach/demonstrate to Scouts?

[CCbytrickery]

How to be quiet and sit still.

What is your phone number?

What are your parents names? (mom and dad don't count!!!)

How to stay with the group and not wander off.

That when you are told NO GUM that means NO GUM, not gum unless you get caught

 

 

I think, though, I'm a bit more...shocked...that I have to teach parents that yes, when we say the boys need to look up information on an animal and make a project of some sort to present, that means that THE BOYS need to look up the information and make the project...not the parents. I don't care if Bobby's mom knows about the feeding habits of a koala bear, I want Bobby to know...

[AnnLaurelB]

*facepalm*

 

Yeah, we did the Wolf requirement for "collecting" (and expanded, it's a Beltloop! Yay for bling!!) in our Den.

 

One kid "collected" pop tabs in a peanut butter jar for Ronald McDonald house. Was that *technically* what it asks? No, it wasn't "displayed," etc... but he said what it was, where he got them, what they were for, and why that was important. So, YES! Check mark.

 

But ANOTHER kid... CLEARLY the mom had popped tie holes in the foam core, and strapped Hot Wheels down in symetrical order. It was *PERFECT*. I know this kid. He did not, Ah say NAWT, do that project. And SHE stood up there WITH him and prompted him. I was like, did he even OWN a Hot Wheels before this? Whatevs.

 

He did not end up earning Wolf.

[Ltfightr]

My son doesn't know his address or his phone number. He's in 3rd grade going to 4th grade. He has a learning disablity. Also if he was doing the collecting BL and want to do a disply I would help him. Why...because he is delaid in his fine and gross mtor skills. I would also stand with him and help him give his talk about it...why..again he has speech/lanage delay.

 

Do you REALLY know this kid and why he didn't do these things on his own? Just by looking you would not know my son can;t do these things. I've had parents look at me when I give DS extra help but I just say...he is delaid and go on.

 

Remember....the motto is "Do your best" and if he needs mom and dad to help him do his best we don't judge.

 

Diana

Cubmaster Pack 32

Wood Badge S18-11-1

[Roadkill Patrol]

I had a Tenderfoot scout who could not spell his first name correctly. And no, he does not have any disabilities either. He is home-schooled, with parents who say public school does not effectively teach kids. Sometimes it is just parents who do not teach their kids skills they will need later on in life. I was dumbdounded when I heard the new beltloops that came out (Good Manners & Reading/Writing), but I now think that National had an idea that these skills were being lost on the recent generations.

[AnnLaurelB]

He's been in my son's class since kindergarten; he's not delayed at all. But I've worked with kids this age for 15 years. I know "help" and I know "done for you" when I see it.

 

Of course kids with special needs have different sets of expectations. But these are 6 kids who are not in special classes, nor do they have extenuating conditions.

 

And again, there is a BIG difference between "guided" assistance, and Mom or Dad simply doing the work for him. I've seen this kid's SCHOOL work, and the projects done by the BOYS looked on par with that.

 

The kid (like my own) can't hold a paint brush without WEARING THE PAINT from head to toe. No, he didn't punch 24 *perfectly aligned* and *precisely spaced* and *identically angled* holes, and tie the cars down and label them with the teeny tiny model information on the underbelly of the car.

 

No, he did not. When they got up there, he had NO IDEA the names of any of the cars. Because he hadn't been involved in the project. Trust me. I know.

 

I have a special needs child in the Webelos Den, and great care is taken to ensure he suceeds at HIS ability level...But NOT his *parents* ability level.

 

 

 

 

[Ltfightr]

AH! I understand now. Sorry, touchy subject with me sometimes. My pack has a lot of special needs kids in it and some of the parent's in my son's class would have no idea about his issues either.

[CCbytrickery]

We have a parent that does her cubs projects for him. Because she is "crafty" and he "doesn't do a good job". No problems with him, he is a great kid. The mom just feels that a 7 year old cannot do work to her crafty standards.

 

For example: We made picture frames a few weeks ago. We used foam squares for the backs, and I had foam shapes for the fronts (with the centers cut out) along with tons of foam stickers to decorate them with. I had tons of pictures and had the boys each choose a favorite and walked them thru making them. She took his picture, said she didn't like it (it was one of him with a couple of our other scouts at a campout--in pjs eating smores) and found him one she liked better (of her and a couple of other moms sitting together at same campout, weaving plastic keychains). She didn't like the colors or the front shape he picked, so she picked new ones. She did let him glue the picture to the back frame, but then she glued the front on. She didn't like the stickers he picked out, so she picked out new ones and applied them herself. While he sat and watched everyone else make theirs mostly by themselves.

 

We do have a boy who is on ADHD meds, and we have discovered that is he is given something specific to do, he does much better in meetings. So, for example, if he is in charge of making sure everyone signs in/out of the meetings, he focuses on that and is able to focus better on the rest of the meeting as well.

 

It's fine if a child is guided, that's what we are supposed to do. Sometimes, we have to guide the parents along as well.

[AnnLaurelB]

Omigosh! I'm laughing at the description of the picture frame construction! Next time, have an EXTRA baggie for that mom, and say, "He needs to do his, but here's one for you!"

 

Oh, and the Good Manners thing? We went to a Beltloopalooza day, and they included Manners with Football, Baseball, Kickball, Soccer, Archer, and BB Guns!

 

They approached it from the standpoint of how you introduce people to one another, which most grown-ups don't even know how to do correctly.

 

As long as you've got a gaggle of googgly boys anyway, why not sneak something in there that will serve them when they reach adulthood? :0)(This message has been edited by annlaurelb)

[Lisabob]

Funny thing, what kids "know." My son could read from a fairly early age, but for whatever reason, it didn't occur to him until somewhere in 1st grade that you cannot rearrange the letters in a name, and have it be the same name. For a while, he just preferred to spell his name backward. No change in pronunciation - just letter order. He could NOT understand why his teacher would get so vexed.

 

Writing - again, I don't understand why exactly, but for much of elementary school, he could not figure out how to properly grasp a pencil in order to produce legible handwriting. Didn't seem to matter how many times he was shown or which grippy things we put on his pencils - it just didn't click until...one day, it did.

 

Shoe tying - don't even get me started. I admit we resorted to lace locks. It was not worth the battles or the tears. He eventually figured it out.

 

He has a cousin who you might believe had never been shown how to use a fork & knife properly. Actually I know his parents have shown, instructed, encouraged, reprimanded, and occasionally bellowed at him about it - but the kid just could not seem to coordinate the fork hand and the knife hand at the same time. Again, eventually he got it.

 

Neither my son nor his cousin are developmentally delayed in any broad sense. These are just their quirks.

 

So yeah, funny what kids seem to "know," sometimes in spite of their parents' best efforts.

 

 

[Beavah]

They knew they should find a policeman (or a mommy with a stroller is a good bet, too, I told them).

 

Yah, hmmmm.... side comment here, since this is just one of my pet peeves.

 

A child who is lost or in trouble should go to ANYONE for help. ANYONE!!

 

Da child needs help, eh? He or she should not be taught that when you need help you have to run around lost and scared until you happen to find a policeman or a woman with a stroller.

 

It's naught but an act of gross prejudice to believe that a man will be any less willing or capable of helping a child in need.

 

Beavah

 

[AnnLaurelB]

Beavah, you've never been where I live, evidently.

 

And if it's a matter of bleeding to death, yeah, any port in a storm. But REMEMBER! A lot of kids have been taught to NOT TALK TO STRANGERS.

 

I was simply trying give them an example of who might be approachable; I also mentioned someone with a name tag (such as in a store) or someone behind a counter (almost anywhere). I didn't LIMIT it to mommies with strollers; I simply used that in my narrative.

 

Poetic license, if you will. :0)

 

And LisaBob, it took my son FOREVER to learn to tie his shoes. Forever.

[AnnLaurelB]

Okay, okay, okay. A DADDY with a stroller. There, happy? ;0)

[Eamonn]

I'm way past being a kid.

But I don't know HWMBO's cell phone number.

I don't know my sons cell phone number.

I have a phone in the car, but most of the time it's turned off.

Just something I can't be bothered with.

I can tie my shoes!

Ea.

[Beavah]

Yah, sure, I get da poetic license thing.

 

I still think da concept puts kids at risk. If a kid is scared, lost, or otherwise in danger they should be taught to approach anyone and everyone for help. The dad who doesn't have a stroller will help. The high school scout will help, as will ds college student or young professional. The grandfather on his way from a haircut will help; so will the fellow askin' for signatures on a political petition, so will the homeless vet on the street corner. Da Catholics will help, as will the Jews, as will da Muslims, as will da atheists.

 

Stranger danger is nuthin' but the same insane bunker mentality of da folks who dig themselves survival caves out in the woods and stockpile weapons and foodstuffs. It does a disservice to kids and puts 'em at risk for predators, who count on da fact that kids have been taught not to ask for help. A kid who needs help should learn to just ask for help, period.

 

Didn't mean to hijack, though. . Da kids who surprise me are the ones who by boy scout age don't know how to dress themselves without help. You know the ones I mean... who can't put on jacket when it's cold or a raincoat when it's raining if mom isn't there to tell 'em to. Also the ones who by boy scout age don't know how to ride a bike.

 

Beavah