Good Grief!

[Jerry]

That was my response to the thread titled, "Am I out of line on this one?" I wanted to go off on a bit of a tangent, so figured I should start my own thread rather than pulling the original off-topic.

 

So here's my thought: Isn't there something wrong if we can't trust 12 BOY SCOUTS to go on a short bike ride alone? Shouldn't the be ready for emergencies and such?

 

I'm not suggesting that people are wrong to want adult leaders present, I know my own troop isn't ready to do anything without an adult, and that's what drives me nuts. Does anybody out there have a troop of Boy Scouts that come even close to living up to the ideal? Boys that could organize a campout, plan and cook the meals, set and break camp, and handle emergencies BY THEMSELVES??? Or is that just a pipe dream?

[Rooster7]

Yes, but why must we assume that these two issues are one in the same. Doesn't BSA require two deep leadership for troop functions? If a troop takes the precaution of having adult leadership (even when it's not mandatory), does that mean the boys are being hindered? Does it mean that the boys are not equiped "to organize a campout, plan and cook the meals, set and break camp, and handle emergencies by themselves?" For the most part, the boys should be doing all of these things - even if the adults are there watching.

[Jerry]

I've yet to take the Scout Safety course, so my knowledge of 2 deep leadership is limited. However, I would argue that a competent scout patrol should be capable and allowed to do things without an adult.

 

That aside, however, I felt the orignal concerns posted weren't about BSA policy, but rather about the boys' ability (knowledge of first aid, ability to perform in an emergency, etc.) I'm sorry to say that my own troop is NOT ready to perform on their own. I see from Quixote's thread that his troop's adults don't feel their own troop is ready either.

 

So I'm asking, is this normal? Or are there still troops out there that are ready to perform. If there are lots of troops out there that depend on their adults for daily operations (rather than simply to meet BSA policy) then doesn't that imply there's something wrong with the troop?

[Rooster7]

From what I've seen, there are very few troops that actually depend on the adults for "daily operations". At least, I hope that's true. Most adults are there - as a resource (if the boy leaders should need some advice), and "just in case" there is a desperate situation (i.e., a medical emergency). Regardless, as an extra measure of safety, why wouldn't you want an adult there? My only point is this - Having adult supervision around doesn't mean a troop is less capable. If it does, then the said adults are stepping outside of their boundaries.

[Jerry]

Speaking as a former scout (and not as a current leader) I think too much adult supervision stifles the adventure of the program. I'm not suggesting that a group of boys should go out on a high adventure activity such as rapelling or white water rafting without adult supervision. But a day hike or a bike ride? Geez, boys do that all the time by themselves anyways. How can we claim we're teaching them self-reliance if we're going to constantly supervise them on activities that as "civilians" they could do without supervision?

 

Surely we should be able to trust a Scout patrol to independently bike along a known path from a preapproved starting point to a preapproved destination? Adults would see them off and adults would meet them at the end. The time in between is what really counts, and I think the experience is more worthwhile if they truly do it on their own.

 

Adding "an extra measure of safety" is a slippery slope. We can always add a little more, and each time it whittles away just a tiny bit of what makes this program great. Finding the proper balance between safety and adventure is tricky business.

[Rooster7]

I agree, we can go too far in our pursuit to keep them safe. Alas, as I noted in the other thread, I have my "mother's blood". So, I tend to err on the side of being too protective. No matter, your point is valid. The element of adventure can be ruined if an adult is always lurking nearby to jump in and "save the day". As an aside, I think the BSA policy is looser for Patrol outings - two deep adult leadership is not required for day trips. I wonder why that is??? Someone correct me if I'm wrong --- I'm sure Bob White can and will provide some information on that one.

[Bob White]

Since you asked Rooster....

Patrols are youth lead and do not require adult supervision for activities providing they have the permission of the scoutmaster. The reason is quite basic. in many communities patrol members live in the same neighborood, they play together at school around the block at each others homes. During the summer kids who aren't in scouts often get together for day activities without adult supervision. Are we going to say thet because you are a scout and trained to be a responsible person that you can't get together with your friends in your patrol and bike to the park to play? Rather than having them waste their time or get into activities that could harm them, let them do activities that make them better scouts or at least exercise their scout skills.

 

As the scoutmaster it's your resopnsibility to make sure they are properly trained to do patrol activities, that they have a plan, a purpose, a suitable destination, and have thought out emergency plans before they go.

 

It could be the patrol is not yet ready to solo but you could compromise and have a pair of adults within sight or earshot to see how they do. You can pull the adults further and further back until the patrol is ready to go on their own.

 

Train them, Trust them, Let them lead!

 

Bob White

[red feather]

Training, training, training. Once trained put the scouts in a situation (similated) and monitor their reactions. Tent fire on overnight, lost scout, campire burns, medical situations. Without this practice judgements on proficiency cannot be made. All groups that may have to respond to emergencies practice and practice more. Amazing what the boys will gain in confidence and what you will learn about them.

 

YIS