dishonest parents and dishonest leaders

[83Eagle]

Tell the ADLs to get their behavior under control or they are out (assuming the committee is on board with with).

 

If you don't already have a procedure in place for belt loop purchase it could be tough. If it were me I'd say there was no budget for it, which would be true. We have the practice that we only pay for loops earned in pack or den activities, but you have a den activity. If you have the budget and the practice of paying for loops you may be stuck.

 

Obviously there's no way they could earn that many and the sad part is they will mean nothing to the kids while costing $30 per boy. These leaders are unlikely to understand that, but neither should you make it a practice to audit stuff, particularly since parents can sign off on things or, as has been pointed out, just buy them themselves.

 

No matter what you do you need the committee behind you because these people are likely to be a major PITA.

 

We have a somewhat similar situation with our Webelos den...lots and lots of pins earned for things, particularly outdoor things that I know this DL has no interest in working on that were supposedly done as a den. Addressing the situation got me yelled at by the DL as a "command and control freak." Fortunately the DL is leaving the pack. The point is, I understand that dealing with people who think rules don't apply to them is tough. You need support from your committee to get strength in numbers whatever you do.

[Tampa Turtle]

(long Sigh) Been there.

 

A very well organized ticket punching approach can earn a lot of beltloops. As others have said the real issue is the relationship with the ADL's.

 

I would make a point, even a handout of what is expected to "earn" these things and remind folks that we want the boys to have fun, learn new things, and enjoy the journey. Extra belt loops will not get you into a good college.

 

If the group is big enough consider splitting the den.

 

As for dishonest parents, I have had "impossible awards" earned and looked folks in the eye and I know they were lying. While I tried to control the flow and tracking of awards beyond that it was hard to prevent out and out dishonesty. The boys know what is going on. I think the cost of excessive awards should be pushed on to the parents. That is what we did with the Sports and Academic pins which the Pack would not pay for. A rush of awards can bankrupt some units.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

gotta laugh here......Not sure what the pack budget here is......but lets assume 15 belt loops for 5 boys.... that is $140 bucks worth of just belt loops.

 

As Eagle pointed out it is pretty easy for an active boy to pile up the Arrow points. We had 3 bears last year earn 10 arrow points a piece.....they went to Day and Resident camp......Gonna make for a tough career arrow.

[5yearscouter]

Oh we have a Bear den leader with the similar problem. She regularly puts in for 30 or more belt loops for boys--oh these are the ones they've earned all year but we never put in for them, to the tune of hundreds of dollars for just her den of 5 boys. We have a budget for 2 a month, so yeah I guess since August they could have earned 20, but 30?

 

we ask her to tell us which 2 are the most important this month and submit the others next month, cause we will only pay for 2 a month. I hate that rule, because occassionally the Webelos will do 3 or even 4 belt loops a month--like when working on sportsman, or maybe they'll do math, chess, map and compass and another in a month of meetings. but we had to make the rule to keep from going bankrupt.

 

she also is at 1 gold and 10 silvers for all of her bears.... and finished the bear rank with 3 of 5 boys in about 7 den meetings.....

 

She doens't want to be leader next year and we are jumping for joy!!

 

[83Eagle]

What is it with those leaders who let the kids get all kinds of stuff for not doing jack?

 

I'm not talking about dishonest parents here...leaders should know better.

 

But there is a real spectrum of practices. On one hand I have den leaders who are super-concerned about the letter of the law. On the other I have the aforementioned (and outgoing) Webelos leader who suddenly gives our advancement coordinator orders for 6 Webelos pins when I know they've held 2 den meetings. I make a passing remark to one of the Webelos about "did you have fun earning XYZ pin," and he goes..."Huh???"

 

Why do we have to deal with these situations?

 

If an adult isn't going to buy into the program, including the "do your best" part, why do they even bother to volunteer as a leader?

 

To see their kid get a bunch of shiny pins that the boy doesn't care about because he doesn't understand them--let alone have earned them?

 

To have pictures of their kid festooned with awards to show friends and family?

 

To re-live and re-do their own childhood of non-achievement?

 

'Tis a mystery.

[AnnLaurelB]

I've got the opposite problem. I have 5 Wolves, and only 2 of them are going to receive their Rank badges on Monday. They simply didn't DO much of anything.

 

 

[carbphrek]

I've had this issue with 2 sets of parents over the last two years, they give me a list of accomplishments at the first den meeting of the school year. Along with 10 or so belt loops & pins. I just say "thank you I'll update the spreadsheet with the info". Then I just work through the handbook with the den and have the boys earn beltloops & pins throughout the year. These two boys didn't not go to scout day camps or council camp-outs nor did they participate in the pack service projects. Some of the awards/loops require service projects or day camp (Outdoor Activity Award).

 

I do have an overachieving scout who has earned 112 electives (11 arrows), his grandpa is my ADL. He lives & breaths scouts so I know this boy has done all the work. Then I have a few scouts who have earned only the 32 electives that we completed in den meetings.

 

My pack does not have a beltloop maximum per a month/year but I do in my den after dealing with "the List" from over-achieving parents. I tell them 2 beltloops or 2 Pins a month and I need the Beltoop activity sheet filled out so I can keep a record.

 

Now if I can get the parents of the unregistered, uninvolved boy to understand that I can not & will not award the rank of Wolf to him tonight. WTH is wrong with parents like this, entitlement issues big time.(This message has been edited by carbphrek)

[moosetracker]

The boy is unregistered, and the parents still thinks he can earn ranks?? Unbelivable!!

[AnnLaurelB]

I figure I'm going to hear the same thing on Monday night. But the least-involved Wolf only did 45% of the requirements.

 

I'm going to simply state that to award the SAME Badge to a kid who only did 45% of the requirements as a kid who did 100% of them simply isn't right.

 

The requirements don't say "Do some of these." They say to do ALL of them. Period.

 

"Let's enjoy our summer and then work really really hard on that Bear Badge come fall, okay?"

 

Stand firm!

[Tampa Turtle]

The entitlement issues can really impact the boys when they get into Boy Scouts and they find that they really have demonstrate that they know the requirement, not just that they did at home with Mom or Dad. Most of the boys will get up to speed but some of the parents have a bit of a shock.

 

Just last night I told a couple of brand spanking new mid-year crossovers that "Cub Scouts is do your best but Boy Scouts is do the requirement."