biohazard magic fire idea?

[Scoutfish]

I was just browsing through the web looking for interesting ideas for cub ceremonies and campout when I ran across an article on granulated Chlorine and Pine Sol, and another on steel wool and a 6 vot battery.

 

As for the chlorine and Pine Sol...well..the "magic of it sounds awesome..but I get the mental picture of scouts and parents laying on the ground in convulsions and frothy blood spewing out of their mouths and eyes.

 

Now, I know it probably wouldn't be that bad, but still..isn't this somewhat close to cynide gas or what you use to kill an elephant in a gas chamber?

 

 

Then there is the steel wool. Sounds cool too, but dos it explode or flash fire? Do hotfragments of steel wool go exploding through te air?

What about the battery? Does it get hot or is there a chance it explodes?

 

Again, mental picture of a bunch of people in their 40's getting around with walking sticks and service dogs , scarred faces coverd with blind person glasses. Maybe they talk about that campout that was soo freaking cool until their CM blinded them for life.

 

So have you done these?

 

ARe there some more involved staeps that might have been left out?

 

 

I really like the idea of the visual the chlorine gas and pine sol could give - based on the story of using last years ashes and this years scout spirit to start a fire...but the risks seem kinda extreme.

[Eamonn]

Have played with lots of ideas to start Camp Fires.

Most work well in theory but don't live up to expectations.

The battery and wire wool is safe but you need a good amount of very good kindling and some sort of a fan to get the fire going.

I never tried chlorine and Pine-Sol.

But have used pool chlorine and brake fluid.

Equal amounts of both in two plastic cups, which are tipped over dry kindling (Dryer lint works great.)

I'm not sure if we want to do this around Scouts? I did it for a Wood Badge Camp Fire.

 

 

Many, many years ago I served as a Service Team Member at a UK Scout National Cam Site.

One of my jobs was to build the fire for the weekly camp fire.

As a rule I built this early in th day and primed it with newspaper soaked with a little kerosene. The idea being that by building it early the smell wouldn't be that obvious.

This one day we were out of kerosene, but there was this other stuff TVO. I had no idea what TVO was? It seems that TVO is Tractor Vaporizing Oil. (I never seen it since and have never heard of it since.) It smelled like it would do the same job as kero. So I used it.

The guy in charge the Camp Warden (Ranger.) Liked to start the camp fire by standing over the fire with his arms stretched out and in a very loud voice go on about how as the flames rise higher may our spirits be lifted.

Sure enough he stood there with his arms out, first came a lot of very black smoke and then this stuff must have reached flash point, it flashed. He came away minus his eye brows and threatened that he was going to have my guts for garters!

From that day on I was the one who opened the camp fire.

I can look back on this now and smile, but I did learn a good lesson and think that we were so very lucky that he wasn't badly hurt.

Ea.

[CalicoPenn]

Eammon - that's pretty funny - had the same thing happen at an OA ceremony once (though no one got singed). The fire layers had used diesel fuel instead of kerosene to prime the fire - fortunately for us, one of the old-timers was a farmer and recognized immediately that the thick, black smoke pouring out of the fire set-ups was characteristic of a diesel soaked fire about ready to catch and kept everyone away from the fires - the resulting whoosh when it caught was quite impressive. In defense of the fire layers, it really wasn't their fault - whoever filled the blue containers (in the US red is gas, blue is kerosene, yellow is diesel) filled it with the wrong fuel.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

I tried the brake fluid and granular chlorine thing once. Absolutely nothing. Have the changed the formulation of brake fluid?

[rdclements]

Yep. If you mix 'em up right, you can get enough heat from the chlorine and pine sol to start a fire. You also get a nice cloud of chlorine gas - not recommended. If you mix 'em up wrong, you usually get nothing but you can also get a visit from your local hazmat pros or possibly a closed casket funeral. It also works if you substitute brake fluid or one of several other substances for the pine sol. Your actual mileage may vary.

 

I've done a more controlled ceremonial fire start with a successful light every time:

I put a model rocket engine igniter in the kindling and hide the wiring under the dirt as it leaves the fire pit. The Chief comes out, says the magic words, the hidden accomplice hits the hidden switch to trigger the hidden igniter and you're in business. It works every time but it's not as spectacular as a poison gas cloud.

 

Steel wool and a battery is an old standard. Try it out in the backyard.

[AnnLaurelB]

YOU HAD ME AT "BIOHAZARD"!

[KC9DDI]

The steel wool and a 6V or 9V battery is pretty safe. Roll some steel wool into the size and shape of a hot dog and hook some standard electrical wiring to each end. Using a lot of good tinder and kindling, build the fire around the steel wool. Run the electrical wiring to a hidden area with a battery, and when you're ready to start the fire just touch the wires to the battery terminal for a few seconds. Basically it will work like a car cigarette lighter - the steel wool will glow red, and the heat should ignite your kindling and get the fire going. You shouldn't have a problem with the battery getting hot or anything, and any sparks will be small (only fly a few inches from the steel wool). I've done this a couple of times with a car battery even, and never had a problem. You might want to do a few practice runs to get an idea for how much steel wool you'll need. Be sure to run the electrical wire in a direction that people won't trip over it during or after the fire. I'll be honest and admit that I've "blessed" the campfires with some tiki torch fuel prior to using this method.

 

As far as pinesol and chlorine.... not so sure about that, and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable trying that. Obviously some liquid accelerants are safer than others. Tiki torch fuel, or citronella oil, I think is one of the safer ones - it will help get a fire going pretty good, but doesn't really explode the same way that gasoline or kerosene will. Still, if you do feel the need to help the fire along a bit, make sure that you personally oversee what is used, and how the fire is lit.

[gcnphkr]

We were looking at some fun ways to start fires and stopped in a Walmart to pick up something, large flashlight (the parabolic mirror will light a bit of tender where the bulb goes. I picked up a package of 0000 steel wool and gave it a spark from a lighter just to see what it would do. There I was in the Walmart hardware department with the steel wool doing its burn trying to put it out. The guy I was with and I just busted up laughing. He said he should take my Firem'n Chit away. I said the joke is on him, that I do not carry one.

 

Anyway, steel wool doesn't make a flame, just gets very hot with nice orange runs along the wool. Have some tinder and small kindling on wool in the center of the fire lay and it will light just like it would if you used a match. Unroll the wool and spread it out in the fire lay and it might make an interesting effect, but nothing dramatic.

[shortridge]

The battery-and-steel-wool system that KC9DDI described also works well using a simple pen spring in place of the steel wool. Just shove a couple of matches into the spring, making sure the heads make good contact with the metal, attach the wires to the ends, and voila! - you've got yourself a magic fire.

 

On an unrelated note, after a couple weeks of summer camp, the main office would almost always mysteriously start to run out of usable pens. The springs were vanishing at quite a rate, and no one was sure why ...

[Engineer61]

Chlorine and anything is right out of the Darwin Awards book.

 

How about a 3" length of magnesium wire (or tape) and a match (or a high current hobby battery) ... big bright light... add kindling.

 

Wouldn't recommend magnesium shavings....far less controlled.

[beardad]

If you use steel wool, and instead of a 9 volt battery use a cell phone battery. you get a really good spark out of it. I tried it yesterday in my back yard. I was expecting just a cool little red glow, but it caught right away. I was using an SOS pad.

[shortridge]

Just make sure you use the steel wool pads *without soap*! I write from experience gleaned from grabbing a box off the shelf without looking.

[beardad]

I used the SOS pads with soap, as that is what I had laying around. I didn't try to start an actual fire with it,but I did catch the pad on fire using the cell phone battery and about half a second of contact.

[artjrk]

Growing up, our family was at a National Park out west for one of the campfire programs. The ranger had the steel wool and electrical battery set up. To add to the dramatics he soaked the steel wool in a bit of gas and gun powder. When he flicked the switch their was an immediate flash of light and smoke followed by a steady growing fire. Quite impressive to the spectators. As an adult and Scout leader I have never tried to duplicate this.

 

I have seen people hold steel wool to a 6 Volt battery in their hands to get it burning to use as a fire starter. Seemed pretty safe to me. No flying shards of metal.

[KC9DDI]

Yeah, the steel wool (and similarly the pen spring) with a 9V or 6V battery are pretty safe. Worse case scenario is that it just won't work. Two recommendations if you're planning on trying this out:

 

1) Do a couple dry runs to get the feel for how much steel wool you'll need, and how the fire should be constructed. Typically there's much less of an impressive "wow" factor if your magic fire starter doesn't work right....

 

2) I wouldn't recommend playing with any kind of other accelerants (kerosene, gas, gun powder, etc) unless you regularly work with them, and know exactly what you're doing. A cub scout campfire is not the place to do a chemistry experiment unless you know exactly what the result is going to be...