What to do?

[ScoutNut]

>>"the parent should be told the Scouters will not be responsible for the boy's transportation to den and pack meetings."

[Renax127]

At some point you have to surrender to common sense, YP rules are at least as much about legal protection for the council/national as anything else. In other words if a leader violates one of the YP rules and something happens the council/national can point to their policy and say "They aren't supposed to do x". National is doing the same thing every corporation needs to do, create a policy and training program that will offer some legal protection for when individuals make personal decisions that could cause problems, I don't blame them.

 

If I personally felt comfortable with a kid/family, I would drive the boy to and from a meeting and not worry about what YP said.

[Renax127]

>"I would say that such a boy cannot join as a Tiger Cub but could as a Wolf. However, the parent should be told the Scouters will not be responsible for the boy's transportation to den and pack meetings. It is a slippery slope. "<

 

Well if the leader does not want to be responsable, then sure but if the leader is not doing it because of the YP rules then I think we are in danger of making the rules more important than the boys.

 

[AnnLaurelB]

Wouldn't it be simple enough to say to the mom, "Our YP guidelines prevent a registered BSA leader from being responsible for getting your son to and from events, but I'm sure some of the other parents would be glad to help you out," ?

 

The statement about the guidelines is as interpreted by the CM's comfort level.

 

If the CM (or CC or whomever) gets a call like this, it's THEIR comfort level (or that of the CO's policies) that determines whether the person taking the phone call can say, "SURE! I'll come get him!" vs. "Here's a parent roster. You're welcome to arrange a ride with another parent."

[Basementdweller]

Scoutnut

 

We have a troop in our district that does exactly that......parents transport their scout to and from events and campopouts, no exceptions. Troop leadership does not provide transportation period.

 

No idea on the background and the whys....that is the way they operate.

 

There are scouts I will not transport because of the damage they caused to my or other scouter vehicles.

[packsaddle]

AnnLaurelB suggested a response, "Our YP guidelines prevent a registered BSA leader from being responsible for getting your son to and from events, but I'm sure some of the other parents would be glad to help you out,"

 

First, the YP guidelines do not prevent such transportation. They merely assist with advice on how to avoid risks while doing something like this. I did this many times over my years as CM and as long as you conform to the guidelines, all is well.

 

Second, I never spoke for others in matters like this. I never attempted to reassure someone by saying "I'm sure some of the others..." unless some of those others actually HAD already volunteered to help out. And in that case I gave specific names of the volunteers.

 

Third, if the intent of the statement is to 'get out' of having to transport the child, simply decline to do it. The mom might be disappointed but the honest directness will give her what she needs to know right away.

Otherwise it comes across as passing-the-buck at best or an outright deception at worst. I guarantee that the mother in question for this thread has heard similar words many, many times over the years as she tries her best to raise her son.

[Scoutfish]

Well, all my posts were about non leaders driving the boy. My posts were about announcing during a pack meeting that a mom wouild like some help.

 

I never said the pack, the leadership, or the committee would appoint or designate a driver.

I never said a leader would do it either.

 

BUT... If leader and his son were going and volunteered to do it, they would not be violating YP . If any other person outside of leadership volunteered to do it, they whatever they decide to do is outside the boundaries and authourity of the pack, CO , BSA and YP.

 

Now, technically, YP does not say that a Leader cannot be alone with ascout:

 

http://usscouts.org/safety/YP_guidelines.pdf

 

What most of you seem to be thinking of is Two Deep Leadership:

 

Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders, or Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activitieseven those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

 

No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmasters conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

 

Separate accommodations. When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his or her own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers. Likewise, youth and adults must shower at different times.

 

Respect of privacy. Adult leaders must respect the privacy of youth members in situations such as changing clothes and taking showers at camp, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults must protect their own privacy in similar situations.

 

Pretty much, 2 Deep applies to the activities trhat happen during scout meetings or events. Not when a leader would be giving a ride.

 

But, I ain't too keen on a leader giving a ride to that scout if they are the only tweo in the vehicle...bvut at the same time, if he is a neighbor to the mom and has know both of them for a long time, and she trusts him...then , that seems to be an exemption . Why? Because this type of thing may happen at other times too ( outside of scouting where scouting has no authority) like going to WalMart, school, baseball practice, a ride to the grocery store or who knows what.

 

But to reitterate, all my previous comments were about anothert non leadership parent VOLUNTEERING to give the boy a ride.

 

Anbd if that happens, I as a CM or any other position of leadership cannot stop that!

 

 

[shortridge]

"Now, technically, YP does not say that a Leader cannot be alone with ascout"

 

Yes, it does. That's the whole point of the no-1-on-1 contact rule. Two-deep leadership is something entirely different.

 

"No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmasters conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths."