What to do?

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Scoutfish,

 

 

Of course, if everything goes OK, the position you take is fine.

 

But suppose there's a traffic accident and the kid is injured, and the person providing the ride doesn't have a license or insurance.

 

If you are being grilled by plaintiff's lawyer in a lawsuit, you might be pretty unhappy.

 

We like to think that there is a bright line between doing things that are OK and doing thangs that are not OK, but often that's not the case. If authorities scrutinize a case, they may construe all the fine points against you and not give you the benefit of any doubt.

 

If you want to be safe, you need to stay well away from potentially dangerous issues. That is the unfortunate fact of life in our litigious society.

[Basementdweller]

Just curious scoutfish......have you asked your insurance agent about transporting scouts in your personal vehicle.

 

I was told don't.

 

Just imagine 8 scouts in your personal minivan......get broad sided. How much car insurance do you have......I got a million. I wonder if that is enough.

 

Just spent a couple days last week being deposed by an attorney, work related. That was a bunch of fun. Spending a day with an attorney giving single word answers, sitting poker faced. Yep lots of fun.

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Scoutfish]

I really don't get your angles here. Why in the world would I or the pack have any liability for what a mom does?

 

If that's the case, then it would require all parents to contact us before hand before carpooling, if one scouts happens to be spending the night with another after the meeting, team sports, etc.

 

I nor the pack is responcible, in charge, or an any way liable for anything another parent does out side of the scope of scouting...which incidentally, is when the carpooling would take place.

 

AGIN, I am not assigning anybody to do anything. I am not/ can not tell a parent to give/ not give another person a ride

 

If teh disabled mom is asking for somebody to give her son a ride..and it is not a uniformed, registered leader ( during scout events).....then it is none of the packs buisness what that mom scooses to do.

 

If mom asks her neighbor - who also has a son who is a scout at the pack - to give her son a ride...I cannot prevent, stop, okay, or do anything about it....unless the the one providing the ride is a know registered sex offender ..but the only thing I could do in that case is keep them off the property and out of the scout event.

 

[Scoutfish]

"If you are being grilled by plaintiff's lawyer in a lawsuit, you might be pretty unhappy."

 

No, I wouldn't be unhappy, I'd be curious as to why they are talking to me?

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Guess you have never been named in a lawsuit......Everyone gets named and people who were your friends will turn on you to protect their butts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Why would I be named in the lawsuit?

 

 

Why any more than you?

 

 

Lawsuit for what?

 

If the carpooling mom were to get in a wreck or something....that's NOTHING to do with me.

 

[AnnLaurelB]

Does anyone else hear SP's "Hello Scoutfish" in Jerry Seinfeld's voice? "Hello...NEWMAN." Sorry. Maybe my overactive imagination at play.

 

"If mom asks her neighbor - who also has a son who is a scout at the pack - to give her son a ride...I cannot prevent, stop, okay, or do anything about it..."

 

I have to say I agree, here. I think the DIFFERENCE is whether a Scout Leader is BROKERING the ride FOR the kid with ANOTHER registered leader. In THAT case, in a worst case scenario, MAYBE the Leader making the phone call *might* be implicated.

 

But if you just ask the kid's DL to mention to the parents that the mom can't drive, OR if you give the MOM a list of the phone numbers of the kids in the Den, and she asks them herself, then it's between those 2 parents.

 

 

[shortridge]

Just to point out ...

 

In this situation, there's only a YP violation if another adult transports the Scout without another person present in the vehicle. If the other adult's son is also riding along, as I'd expect if we're talking about Scouts on their way to a meeting, then there's no 1-on-1 contact. All is kosher.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

If you solicit a ride for a boy as a pack official and the ride goes bad, I wouldn't be surprised if you and the Scout Council and Chartered organization get sued. Lawyers are going to be looking for money.

 

Unless you check, you don't know if the person driving has insurance, a driver's license or registration for the vehicle.

 

You might imagine that there would be no problem, but you might be wrong.

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

See, that's the whole thing..I am not brokering, arranging, or creating anything.

 

If the mom asks that she get somebody to help carry her kid, carpool, etc...that is outside of my scope of responcibility or power.

 

What if two scouts are at the local park and get into a fight?

What implications does that have with regards to me?

 

NOTHING!

 

What if a scout from my pack throws a rock through the windo at school? NOTHINg to do with me.

 

If tow parents who happen to be in my opack get into a fight..NOTHINg to do withj me.

 

 

Here's the thing: YP is limited to actual SANCTION scout events that are cooridinated by, run by and are part of the pack or unit program.

 

If I happen to be at home cutting grass , and off the scout time clock - and my neighbor's son ( who happens to be a scout) comes over to talk to me about....I don't know - fishing or the weather or if I want to buy a candy bar to support science class at school...then the scout rules, YP, and everything else do not apply.

 

There is a limitation to when anything to do with YP or any scouting rules apply.

 

Other wise, you had better get all your parents to sign a contract that says their children will NEVER get into a conoe unless at a council or district camp..

 

They will never ever buy their sdon a bb gun nor alow him to shoot anything but a bb gun - and only while at camp.

 

No pocket knives unless his DL approves him for and he is carrying his whittling chip too.

 

Oh, and mom and dad had better give up all tobbacco and alcohol products.

 

Matter of fact, all leaders bettter give up same!

 

BUt wait...that only applies when you are at a scout function right?

 

Better answer correctly less you get named in a lawsuit.

 

As far as getting named. some lawyers will do all kinds of stupid shady stuff. But just naming me in a lawsuit does not mean it's reasonable or even valid.

 

Again, what two moms arrange between themselves to get a kid to a meeting is outside the scope of any authority scouting has.

 

Also, according to what some of you are implying - mentioning is considered brokering)

 

Then you had better reconsider any announcement you make from now on. That airshow I mentioned on base next month..I better take that back because ...if a jet crashes...I'll get sued!

 

If the Police Dept cathes on fire during a Tiger Go see it...My pack will be sued too.

 

Matter of fact, I am no longer going to promote council camp because...if anybody has a traffic accidennt while on the way to that camp...I might be named in a lawsuit!

 

 

Again, I cannot control what other people do outside of scouting, nor should anyone ever think I should.

[Scoutfish]

You know...I am thinking that alot of units might ought to just disband. Close down, shut their doors forever!

 

Why?

 

Bcause the potentail for being named in a lawsuit is just to great a risk.

 

What happens if a scout and his parent get into a wreck on the way to a scheduled unit meeting. WEll, since the unit, the unit leaders, the COR and CO set this thing up...they could be held responcible for any injury or damages!

 

I mean, the scout probably wouldn't have been on the road to get hurt if the unit did not have that meeting scheduled.

 

Suppose a Webelos scout falls down and the two pins from his Webelos colors stick into his arm and some staff gets in there too? Now I could be sued for sickness and all the associated hospital bills. You know what I mean? He wouldn't have even been wearing the colors if our unit hadn'r awarded them to him and expected him to wear then for his Activity Pins..which might also make it National's problem too since they came up with the concept.

 

 

And what about fundraisers?

Now we are dragging the district and council into this mess as well. Might even get the state and federal people involved to as I am pretty sure there are some child labor laws being broken. Do the individual sellors carry proof of tax id numbers on them? If not, , maybe they should also be charging and collecting for state and federal taxes too.

 

What about vendor/ peddler licenses?

Workmans comp insurace? If you are driving around, is your vehicle now consideed a work or buisness vehicle? Maybe yoiu should have commercial tages or at the very least, a DOT number on your door.

 

And since the only reason anybody goes to the scout shop and buys any supplies is because the units expect it..shouldn't every single item be written off on taxes for scouts, parents and all leaders alike?

 

Maybe I'll start claiming any and 100% of all expenses associated with any camping event whatsoever as a tax deduction. Good thing too since I love grilling brats..which are not that cheap!

 

Sounds rediculous right?

 

Yeah well......... that was my point!

[Basementdweller]

I have to apply for a permit in our city to sell popcorn door to door. then make copies for every scout to carry when selling. City law

 

We have to have an EIN number to get the non for profit door to door permit from the City.

 

If we hold a fundraising dinner, it has to be prepared in a certified/commercial kitchen by a certified cook/chef. City law

 

if I drive the church bus that holds 15 people I have to have a Commercial drivers license. State law

 

It is a confusing maze for sure.

[ScoutNut]

If you are afraid of being sued then it is not just scout functions you should be wary of.

 

So, what to do? Put up a large, locked, gate around your property. Never allow any of your, or your kids, friends on your property, or in your house for any reason. Never give anyone a ride in your car for any reason. Never allow anyone (including delivery/repair men on your property or in your house. Never go anywhere, or do anything with friends. Homeschool your kids.

 

Actually, you had just better put a protective bubble around you and your family and have no interaction at all with the outside world because any time that you have even the slightest interaction you put yourself at risk of being sued.

 

Is this really how you want to live?

[Scoutfish]

"Actually, you had just better put a protective bubble around you and your family and have no interaction at all with the outside world because any time that you have even the slightest interaction you put yourself at risk of being sued."

 

 

If that bubble doesn't work...I'm gonna $ue somebody!

 

[neil_b]

I would say that such a boy cannot join as a Tiger Cub but could as a Wolf. However, the parent should be told the Scouters will not be responsible for the boy's transportation to den and pack meetings. It is a slippery slope.