FOS

[BS-87]

TwoCubDad-

 

Past District Commissioner, just happy to be a Unit Commissioner now.

 

I am an antagonist though, and you will always find me on what I feel is the weaker side of the argument. This is because I believe nothing can be as simple as right or wrong, and the unexamined opinion is not worth holding.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello BS-87,

 

 

I don't think there's any question that having units assemble an audience for a FOS pitch can be an effective way to get contributions. And it's not a "captive" audience --- people can walk out if they wish.

 

Packsaddle makes a useful point on other ways to solicit donations though---

 

Our previous Council Executive gave an awesome FOS pitch while training FOS presenters. Suppose he made a video pitching FOS that was sent to parents who hadn't made a FOS contribution? Monthly or quarterly, perhaps. You could send that as a video to those who had e-mail addresses registered with the council.

 

Send it (or a sutable variation) to those who have been FOS contributors in the past but are no longer registered Scouters or parents.

 

Worth a try, anyway.

 

Incidentally, in addition to unit FOS pitches, our council does several breakfasts and lunches which sell seats for $100 or more and have sports figures or other community names making pitches. That supplements unit pitches.

 

Our district raised $57,000 for FOS this year, making our assigned quota. Pretty much all from unit solicitations. We have twelve districts in the council.

 

Personally I like the idea of having a district FOS breakfast or hitting up service clubs and such as well --- supplementing unit pitches with hitting up the broader community.

 

If I were the district FOS chair, I'd probably leave the unit solicitations to the DE to organize so he has something to do with his time (Heh, heh!), and concentrate on developing new solicitation methods for the district to supplement the unit solicitations.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Around here we don't do those pitches at school. If we're lucky we might be allowed to hand out an announcement at the end of a school day. Then the pitch is given at the announced place and time. Those are not captive because the participants are there voluntarily.

 

Around here FOS had traditionally been pitched at the Blue and Gold or some similar venue for the troop, often a COH. Those attending families were NOT there for the FOS pitch and making them sit through that pitch in order to enjoy what they thought they were there for made them a captive audience.

 

To expand on the higher-tech option, the mere fact that BSA had sent out a 'tweet' or something along those lines would be so novel that that fact alone would curry interest and notoriety around here. To have some interesting content would be an even greater pleasant surprise.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

If you are in a position where you either listen to a speech or are subject to being disciplined, discharged, jailed or otherwise penalized, you are in a captive audience.

 

If you attend a social gathering, you run the risk that there may be things on the agenda you didn't come to hear.

 

Tough.

 

Raising money for charitable causes should be a fact of life for adults. Heck --- the CUB SCOUTS have better reasons to object to hearing a pitch that isn't even directed at them.

 

I often spend time visiting the websites of councils and districts across the country. MANY of them are struggling in ways that damage or weaken their program.

 

My district raised $57,000 this year almost entirely through unit solicitations. I helped out with that as both a unit leader hosting a solicitation and as a FOS pitchman. People had no obligation to contribute and I made that clear. I didn't invite people to get up and leave, but no one was chained to their seat.

 

FOS is VITAL to the continued success of my unit, district and council, and I'm going to support it.

 

If someone can't stand listening to a pitch and lacks the gumption to get up and walk out ---- tough.

 

 

Personally I DO walk out on Scouting speeches when they get too annoying. My sympathies to Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts who perhaps can be regarded as a captive audience since they may be required to sit through bad presentations like it or not.

[AnnLaurelB]

I have no problem with taking the opportunity of a gathering of people to solicit financial help for a program of which their kids are reaping the benefit.

 

But in *exchange* for 10 minutes of my platform time, all I ask is that the presentation simply NOT BE TORTURE.

 

Not asking much, really. At least I don't think so.

 

Then again, the Pack meetings *themselves* during my son's Tiger year were SNORESVILLE. (I finally came a bit unglued at the edge during a meeting and asked the CM if he had ever planned a PARTY. Not for kids, no he had not. I said, a Pack meeting should feel like a party. Something to look forward to and wonder, "What fun thing does CM have planned for us this time?!?" He did a little better after that -- I just don't think he knew HOW to make kid fun.)

 

The FOS gal who came to our B&G was nice and all. But I guarantee you no one heard a word she said; people got up for more dessert, etc... I would have been better off taking her 10 minutes back for my program, and doing 3 minutes on it myself.

 

I know you can't command someone to "BE INTERESTING, damn you!" but a *little* effort to NOT bore our socks off would be appreciated. And more effectual.

[AnnLaurelB]

AHAH!!! I think you've hit on something. "The worst thing is having someone talk over the heads of Cub Scouts to parents..."

 

What an FOS person needs to do is talk to the BOYS as though the parents WEREN'T THERE, and convince the CUBBERS that Mom/Dad/Aunt Louise should try to participate.

 

If the kid believes in it, they might get the parents on board. Just thinking out loud...

[Twocubdad]

Ummm, no. I gotta think making the pitch to the kids would tick off a lot of people too.

 

The best presentations are from the heart from folks who believe in the program and ask others to help deliver the program.

[Oak Tree]

AnnLaurelB,

 

What you said above about presenting at a pack meeting is what I tell anyone who gets up in front of the pack for most items. "You aren't 'telling the parents about the logistics of the Pinewood Derby', you are 'getting the Cub Scouts excited about the Pinewood Derby.'"

 

You aren't 'explaining how popcorn sales work', you are 'getting the boys excited about selling popcorn.'

 

But for FOS, you're really talking to the adults. There's nothing for the kids to do here - they don't donate the money, and I really don't think it would go well to try to get the kids to pester their moms and dads on this one - "But mom, he said that if we have this patch, it will be proof that we like Scouting and everyone will know that I'm an extra good Scout!"

 

Well, even if you don't go to that extreme, you can still see how parents wouldn't like a solicitation directed at their kids.

 

I think I would do some things in the direction of keeping the Cubs involved. Throw in questions for them from time to time - "How many of you have been camping?" or have some numbers for a drawing - "Can number 22 come help me show off these patches?" or "Stand up if your den leader has a trained patch on." Maybe tell a little story about someone who needed help from the council and got it.

 

So yeah, it would be good if the kids get that Scouting is fun and we should support the council. But ignoring the parents completely...I don't think I'd go that way [see, Twocub? almost always agree...]

 

Then again, I also probably wouldn't try to bore the parents, or annoy the parents, or speak in a slow monotone.

[AnnLaurelB]

Oh, now...don't be poppin' them Literal pills. I was just thinking out loud toward making the FOS experience more *palatable* to everyone involved.

 

You know what the scary part is when I talk to myself? ... I answer back.

 

What?

 

Nothing.

 

Ok. Want a sandwich?

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

I seem to recall one pitchman who gave Cub Scouts treats if they could recall facts from his FOS presentation. Of course that might have kept some adults awake trying to remember as well.

 

Since I do a lot of school recruiting, asking who got a FOS funded sticker when they were invited to join Cub Scouts would find quite a few Cub Scouts eagerly remembering that occasion.

 

Wait a minute --- I'm making notes....

[Scoutfish]

See, now I am wondering about something else.

 

Maybe my council doesn't do FOS at pack meetings and B&G events because of another reason:

 

WE pay for most everything we do.

 

You sign up, you pay for registration and for insurance. Then you spend $ after $ on books, uniforms, gear, etc..

Some parents think they must buy their tents, sleeping bags and such at the scout shop. Nobody tells them this, but they don't tell them otherwise.

 

So then you have all the meetings, pack meetings, events and camping.

 

All the leadership on the unit levels are within thier own units and not provided by council. CO's or even Den Leaders provide meeting space. Not the council.

 

When I took BALOO, it was $25.00. That was for materials since all the instructors were volunteers. I drove 2 hours to get there on my own dime( not complaining , mind you, but that is how it is.).

 

For Pow-Wow, I paid $30.00. Same 2 hours and same dime for gas.

 

When I took classroom for Webelos DL , CubMaster, and a few others, it was taught by volunteers and people who recently completed WB.

 

RT's are hosted/ emcee'd by our DE who will use any guest speaker/ presenter/ instructor at every chance he gets.

 

Our resident camp staff was 100% volunteer excluding Camp Ranger and Council Program director - who was actually volunteering his time at camp.

 

But the camp cost $110.00 for one parent/one son. Not including the shirt. Weekend cut short by rain/ stormy weather. Yeah, that's a chance you take, and I don't expect a refund, but that does mean extra profit was made by council.

 

All events are lead, worked or hosted by volunteers. District banquet was hosted by a troop and crew. I paid $5.00 to get in, and ended up passing out brochures and working a few things.

 

Webeloree hosted by a pack. Cost, $38.00

 

Spring camporee hosted by troop and pack. Cost $40.00

 

I volunteered to be our District camp promotions guy. It was volunteer. Our scouting for food coordinators were 100% volunteer.

 

GTA people were 100% volunteer.

 

When the council registrar comes to RT's to explain why something online is jacked up....

it's on her own time.

 

 

Yeah, our council doesn't really do much in te way of FOS, but does do luncheons instead for prominant ( read $$$) citizens of the community.

 

Maybe it's because it would be a slap in the face to ask us to not only pay our fees, dues and volunteer countless hours, but to ask us to pay even more money for doing what we do already?

 

So yeah, they can say : Look at all the services you get, but most of trhose services are provided by the ones they are directing that comment to!

 

NOw, I know that Council cannot work for free. Never said they could or should. I do realize there are costs. But even volunteers have to pay up just to volunteer while our SE is making $100,000.00 a year.

 

I'm just saying that asking the people - who have footed the bill for everything they do and those who volunteered on top of that - for money for just being able to do what they do....well. it sounds alot like the mob asking you to pay "insurance" so yourt pack's CO doesn't burn down!

 

Just saying...maybe that's why we don't have FOS presentations.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[BadenP]

 

FOS is always a two edged sword for me, as a former DE, it has been 20 years ago, for my two districts we would put together a slide show, no power point then, with some motivational music of all the district and council events of the past year and followed it with a short 5 minute talk about the value scouting brings to the youth. That seemed to work well and my districts were always well over the goals set. It also helps if the council has not squandered any money and has been receptive to the volunteers for the past year.

 

It seems over the years since in many councils there seems to have been a shift in professional scouting with emphasis in what I call "Empire Building", using funds inappropriately to make the SE look good so he can get promoted faster, a deemphasis on supporting district activities and training and more funds used to build up council facilities and properties, and very high salaries given to SE's, FD's, etc., similiar to what is going on at the National office. In other words the chasm between professional and volunteer scouting is growing wider and wider each year.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello BadenP,

 

 

Council boards ought to be the check on the kind of abuse you describe. Do you think such oversight is weak, and if so what can be done about it?

[Scoutfish]

Now, I wouldn't mind if they wanted to give a "Camp refurbishment fundraiser" presentation.

 

Again, I know camps are not expense and maintainace free. But again, in my council, we volunteer alot of trime at camps fixing, repairing and maintaining stuff. Strill, materials coast.

 

If the SE or DE wanted to go from unit to unit to give a maintainace fund presentation...especially a month before camping begins , while last years camp issues are fresh in everybody's minds.

 

But I also would like top see comment cards passed out at sign in at camp. Just like the ones at fast food restaurants.

 

Let the VOLUNTER staff know what you likes, disliked, would like to see added or dropped, AND THEN...any maintainance issues you saw at camp.

 

Then the SE/DE could adress these issues before asking for anything else!

[Life-Scout-Ldr]

I am sure it has been addressed, but I think that the Freinds of Scouting should solicit more to those Friends, and not the Scouters/volunteers that are already pouring their time, sweat, emotions, passion, and hard earned money from their own wallets in order to bring the program to the boys (and girls in Venturing).

 

The program is about the youth, and that is all we are trying to do as people that have regular jobs or take care of kids all day, and then spend our time as volunteers for scout units. We do it because it is important to us. Our unit families already pay a lot for uniforms, and dues and program fees. These are not the people to ask for money. They are already giving themselves and their money to Scouting.

 

If they still wish to donate then I think that is awesome, but don't expect it. As I stated the focus should be on those "Friends" of Scouting. The organizations in the district/council areas. Campaigns and breakfasts are great if they are effective. Get the word out and get the donations from corporations and folks who have charity money to give. My charity donation is often in time, leadership, and money to the units I am a part of.

 

One thing I always think about when I see the FOS and how much they want, beg, and plead for us to give, and how much uniforms cost as well as other program materials; A Scout is Thrifty. If that is the case then why are we spending so much? I didn't read a Scout is thrifty except when it comes to providing and paying for program for the youth.

 

None of my families want to go to Summer Camps, or resident day camps. the reason is always the cost. I understand that there are costs involved, but I can offer merit badges at a 4 day event for a unit or 2 for a fraction of the cost that camp has. I know what the Summer camp experience is like and I am greatful that my parents paid for me to go. I had a blast, I learned alot, and I even worked for the Summer camp I went to as a youth. I think they are great, but too much money for low middle class families keeps us from going, and out fund raisers do pay for many things for us, but not the FOS. Even if the price was dropped by 50% they won't pay for it. I think the prices are reasonable for Boy Scout summer camp considering the duration, and amennities that are offered, but perhaps summer camps can make more money through the year by offering more programs, or opting to allow public campers in during non summer camp seasons. I don't know for sure if that is feasable or not.

 

As for Cub resident camps, what cost must there be other than a place to do it? Can we solicit for more volunteers? can we solicit for more donations from companies? why does it have to cost so much? make them provide their own lunch, or make the lunches simple instead of eleaborate. Perhaps have certain events have a specific cost if the parents want their son to participate in them.

 

Those are my ideas to help, but the FOS doesn't seem like a smart organization if they are hitting up scouting families for more than $5 or $10 dollars in some areas. and even then I still consider it rude to try and guilt, or persuade more of them at all. I say yes give your presentation if you wish, but perhaps tailor it to getting extended family to donate, grandparents, friends, and see if an online way to donate is better for that forum. I would be more willing to ask friends and family of scouters to donate than the scouters themselves.

 

Please let me know what you think about these ideas.

 

Respectfully,

 

Life-Scout-Ldr