problem with den leader

[Oak Tree]

I guess I'd ask myself, "What good do I think will come from my mentioning this again?" Is he likely to realize the error of his ways and repent? I'm guessing not.

 

What you need to do is get yourself invited as the guest speaker at a pack meeting, where you can talk about the contribution that disabled veterans have made to the country. Talk about how your husband was so happy to have a son, and when you look at a father and his son (and here you point to or look at the scout leader in question), you're reminded of how your husband looked at his own son. You see all these kids and the way they look at their fathers, and while your son admires your husband very much, you wish your son could look at his father in person the same way that these kids do.

 

Talk about some of the ways that a country recognizes its disabled veterans - it accords them various honors (e.g., Purple Hearts), and even helps out with small items like handicapped parking spots. These are but small tokens compared to what these men and women have given up. When you watch a parade, and a disabled veteran comes past, and the people give him a standing ovation, it just tears at your heartstrings and fills you with pride that these people recognize what the veterans have done for them.

 

And every one of the fathers in the room now has the chance to lead their own sons every day. The boys hear what their fathers say. They watch what their fathers do. You've heard stories of Vietnam and how disabled soldiers returned to their country to be spit upon, and you can't imagine the ache this must have caused. You wince when people talk dismissively about the disabled. You feel betrayed when you see a non-handicapped person parking in a handicapped spot. You cry for those soldiers who can't manage to get themselves reintegrated into society.

 

You thank them for their time, tell them you're proud of them for the good examples that you know they are setting for their sons.

[AnnLaurelB]

Oaktree! Wow. Regardless of what Concernedmom decides to do, that's some GOOD STUFF! :0)

[AnnLaurelB]

P.S. I'd like to also remind us that everyone has their own 'sensitivity button'.

 

Some of us church parents are planning a picnic for our retiring Children's Minister (also our Cub CC). We're having a picnic dinner potluck tomorrow; I'm on appetizers, and I'm making Buffalo Turds.

 

There was a conversation on Wednesday whether I was going to make them ATOMIC Buffalo Turds. And within that conversation, someone mentioned 'Slap Yo Mama' spice rub stuff. I had not heard of this, and it amused me.

 

I laughed and repeated (in a hooting, you-gotta-be-kidding-me tone/volume) "SLAP YO MAMA?!? Slap Yo Mama. That's awesome...." etc.

 

Well, one of the dads of the church kids, whose ex-wife passed away last year, took me aside and chided me for being insensitive for laughing about "Slap yo mama," when his motherless son might be in hearing.

 

Really? Over a spice rub? But, it bothered him. So he said something. I think it was over the top, being that it was IN CONTEXT and NOT a comment about anybody's mama, living or otherwise, but that was his choice to call me out.

 

Will it change me? Pfffft. No. I already KNOW his son, and his daughter, and I already AM careful what I say to them. I am NOT going to censor my EVERY word pertaining to maternity just because his kids are around. HOWEVER, at that moment, he felt better. So be it.

 

I also have a friend who has adopted FIVE children (bless her heart and give her a good seat in Heaven!). She will take down ANYONE who dares say anything out loud near her kids in the way of families breaking up. She's a wonderful, amazing, talented, lovely person, and I adore her, but she's got this really sensitive spot about abandonment issues.

 

You really just can't please all the people all the time! :0) You just have to realize that everyone's got their button that they don't want pushed.

 

 

 

[concernedmom]

Wow! Some very interesting points in this discussion. Oak Tree, what you suggest is beautiful and I think I may work on a presentation. What a wonderful tribute it would be and a lesson presented in the most diplomatic way. Thank you.

 

Laurel B, I appreciate some of your advice as well. But as LEADERS to these cub scouts, adults must be on THEIR BEST behavior. Who do our children learn from? ADULTS. Parking in a handicapped spot is ILLEGAL. These spaces are so designated for 24 hours a day, not just when someone who is entitled to use it shows up. And yes, we all have different levels of tolerance. When someone tells me I have done or said something hurtful, I don't do it again out of respect for that person, whether I think they are overly sensitive or not. As for dealing with the death of a parent/spouse...I assume you have no experience with that? I pray you never will.

 

I promise to do my best to do my duty to God and my country, to help other people.....to honor God, to be a good citizen, to respect other people....

 

 

[AnnLaurelB]

My mom passed away when I was 25; she never met my Cub Scout, so I know all about that. She was ALSO confined to a wheelchair for the last 9 years of her life, and I was her primary caregiver the last 4. So I'm familiar with that issue, too.

 

But I try not to be hurt when people talk about their moms in my presence. That's a different issue, of course, than parking in a handicapped space, I realize. It was just an example.

 

It's just my nature to play devil's advocate; I should have been a lawyer!

 

My only point was that everyone has something that gets under their skin more than it might bother someone else. "Mama" jokes don't bother me because I realize they're not joking about MY mama. She was also a LARGE gal; but I try not to get upset when people make fun of "fatties".

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

 

Yes, it's VERY rude for people to park in a handicapped space when they shouldn't (Ohhhh how many times did I have to push my mom through parking lots because of this!). I'm just saying that some folks just aren't going to be as upset about it as people with first hand experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I think the sensitivitry thing is understood by all.

 

But I'm going to give my $.02 on the handicapped parking issue.

 

I'd tell anybody I see parking there that does not have a handicapped plate, placard or sticker to move!

 

Period! No questions asked, not voting, no "if you get around to it" ...nada , zilch , END OF DISCUSSION!

 

If it is a scout leader, tell them that as a person and scxouter who signed up and signed aform stating they would live up to all scoit laws and ideals..that - they of all people_ should know better.

 

Sorry, parking in a handicapped spot when you are not is not an oversight. It's flat out rude, obnoxious, self centered and in some places..illegal. I consider it to be worse than fraud!

 

Granted, I am the CubMster, and I am also not to shy to tell somebody to move their car.

 

Also, I wouldn't hesitate to call the police and a tow truck on that car.

 

My father was served in the U*nited States Coast Guard for 22 years and 3 months ( yeah, odd amouint of time isn't it). He developed a bad knee and a heart condition because it it.

 

But he didn't get a handicapped tag or placard when offered by the Dr and the VA because he said this:

"I can still walk- which is more than alot of people can say" He wasn't just talking vets either.

 

People have severe pain, problems and what not just from taking a few stepps.

 

Not saying you are doing anything wrong or should do more. I'm just saying ...in my own opinion....

 

Bad manners my butt! Their feels are totally and completly trumped by a handicapped person's actual physical pain and limitations.

 

No, there my not be any one person using that spot right now, but the signs don't say "Handicapped unless not being used"

 

Tell those leaders to grow up and have some respect!

 

Again, in my own opinion...I think it would be more in bad manners to not say anything.

[SeattlePioneer]

Sorry Scoutfish, I disagree.

 

Having a quiet word with the offending party would be reasonable, but what you are suggesting would be an over the top reaction more likely to cause trouble than get co operation.

 

You want to call the cops? Help yourself. Let them deal with it.

 

Make an announcement at the Pack meeting that it's important to have the disabled parking space kept clear for those who need it --- fine. Organize a skit to illustrate why that's important? ---- fine.

 

But getting in someone's face when you are emotionally involved AS YOU ARE is probably not a good idea in my opinion ---- and experience.

[Scoutfish]

Nah, I am not emotionally invlovled or vested in it. I also did not suggest or imply yelling at or having a shoving match with anybody.

 

I am just saying that you can tell them in no uncertain terms that they can move their car or the police or tow truck or both will be called.

 

And it can all be said in a calm, clear , and rational voive. Do not vote or have a bartering discussion over it. Just tell that : "This is how it's going to be". Period.

 

The point about my father was trhis: He qualified for a handicapped plate/placard. Yet he didn't get one because he knew that other peopole needed it worse than he did.

 

Now, if he can have that attitude and that respect for a handicapped parking spot, then how can any healthy, physically fit person even begin to try to reason thay are justified or worthy of that spot.

 

Living the scout law and ideals is not something we tell oters to do. Nor is it sometrhing we as leaders are immune to.

 

It starts at the top, is taught by example and should be followed by all!

 

The thing is, those who park there without regard , anr those who thiunk they are above it and that it doesn't apply to them.

 

Time for them to follow the rules wether they like the rules, or agree with the rule or not!

 

 

[ScoutNut]

I think that having a little talk with the Pastor might not be a bad idea. If he/she is OK with it, then there is no problem. However, if the Pastor would like the parking space to remain available perhaps he would be willing to come and make that request at the next Pack meeting, or Pack Leaders meeting.

 

You could ask the Pastor to keep your comments confidential.

[scoutmom0618]

I had to weigh in on this one. You see, back in Nov. I got my handicap placard and should have gotten one long before, however, I worried about crticism from people that were complete strangers who may have thought I looked fine and should not have parked there. I have RA. I have good days and bad and have a very inconsistent energy level. For example, when I arrive somewhere, I may be fine but when I leave can barely make it to the parking lot. Sometimes, I have to sit in my car for up to five minutes to make my body work enough to move. NO ONE knows the whole story of the person who parks in a handicap spot...trust me. My advice is you teach your son and others about right and wrong as well as compassion. yes, we are teaching them things at meetings but they are going to learn more from how you handle the situation. In fact, many times my kids do not even realize something like that until I point it out.

Show compassion because you have no idea, even if you think you do, what is going on with that person in that space..this I know from experience! By pointing it out once, you can bring attention to it but more than that you are involving yourself in a no win situation. For example, if you truly think this person is not a good role model then you need to pull our son out and go somewhere else.

Again, I hate to go against the consensus but there could be unseen underlying issues with this person that you may never know. So, teach your son to understand that we can not always control everything around us but that we can show a good attitude and we can make good choices, even when we see something we do not like.

 

sorry, for being on the opposite side. I truy understand what you mean but from someone with an invisible disability that I tell very few people about, I understand that calling attention to this can have negative effects as well.

[concernedmom]

Hi Scoutmom,

 

Thanks for your comments. I do realize there are disabilities that are not visible to the eye. I was blessed to have had my husband for 20- years and saw many forms of disabilities during our many, many hospital trips. The offender in this case, however, has (and I know this as fact) no disability of any sort, nor does anyone in his immediate family. His justification when I mentioned it one time, was that he has a niece (who is not under his care, nor does she live with him) who is disabled. In fact, he seemed to almost be playing one up with me....my niece is worse off than....). In this state, to legally park in a handicapped designated space, one must obtain a hangtag from the county registrar, which is done with the appropriate medical documentation. He does not have a hangtag. So at best, he is parking illegally.

[concernedmom]

Scoutmom...I want to wish you all the best and I hope that you have more good days than bad.

 

Oak Tree suggested that I make a presentation to the pack. As I work on that, I will definitely be sure to address types of disabilities.

 

Thanks for your helpful comments.

[RichK]

My brother was in a wheelchair while I was growing up and I currently have a placard for my son (whose disability is one of those 'invisible' ones).

 

I think trying to make a learning experience of it would be great - there's the new disabilities awareness belt loop that could tie in. However, this would fall into one of my 'hot button' issues where I am unwilling to compromise (the other one would be littering). The cubmaster's choices would just make me squirm and I'd probably be unable to keep it to myself - this is probably unfortunate, since I doubt a heated discussion would benefit anybody.

 

I'm surprised that others haven't mentioned this to him. I would think the majority of people would respect the law and other citizens.

 

Rich

[Lisabob]

This is in no way intended to be insensitive, and I'm not saying I necessarily believe this. I do understand your concern and the reason you are especially sensitive to this matter.

 

But you know, jaywalking is illegal. Speeding is illegal. In my state, smoking (which I don't) outside, within 25 feet of a public building entrance, is illegal. Parking at a meter without paying is illegal. A nearby town has a nuisance ordinance that makes being annoying illegal (seriously!).

 

How many people do some or all of these things? (I admit that I've been known to speed, if only because people who don't in this car-crazy state get all sorts of rude treatment on the roads. It is a good thing I don't live in that nearby town, as my son tells me I can be annoying at times.) While that doesn't make it right, the fact is that people tend to see things in shades of grey. You might see different shades of grey than they do, and you may be 110% right, too, but reality is seldom as cut-and-dried as it seems.

[concernedmom]

Okay, I think it goes without saying that laws are broken constantly. The fact that they are does not make it right. The main point here is that as a scout leader--leader being the operative word here--one should set the highest standard for his or her behavior and actions. If a parent chooses to do these things....that's between the parent and child. The pack leader sets the example for the ENTIRE group of kids. Even after I said something, he CONTINUES to do this. Now, in all honesty, I seem to be the only one concerned with this issue, and I take great care to teach my child right from wrong by discussing things with him and practicing what I preach (yeah, I do drive above the speed limit too). I think the fact that noone else is bothered by it is also shameful...and how ironic it is that this "leader" will make the evaluation when my son does his disabilities awareness belt loop!

 

You can play devil's advocate all you want. In the end, the scout leader's behavior and his refusal to correct it stinks!