Discipline problem

[AnnLaurelB]

@Lisabob-- I hear what you're saying, but I didn't choose the label, nor do I use it verbally; it came about in the course of this thread. I was just using it as a reference from within the context of this exchange.

 

@hotdesk-- I do like that idea as an incentive for the Cubs that are trying, and I may try to implement that! Thanks.

[kari_cardi]

In regards to the Bear parent who won't step up and be den leader, it might be useful to talk to her to find out WHY she won't volunteer. It might be an issue you can work around, like she is uncomfortable in front of large groups. Or it might be something you can't help with but then you know and you can move on.

 

Also, would it be helpful to separate the Webelos scout and his grandmother? While den leaders usually lead the the den for their scout, it isn't a rule. Boys will often behave differently/better for someone who is not their primary caregiver. I understand it might not be workable, but I thought I would mention it.

 

AnnLaurelB, I really admire your enthusiasm. Best of luck to you!

[AnnLaurelB]

Aw, thanks sasha! As long as my son's having fun, it's fun for me.

 

I think we have some cultural issues underlying the one Bear mom's reluctance, but I think if we sit down with the Bear dad and give them the options, she might be willing to at least register as the DL for the two boys, and that's a foot in the door.

 

The reward for me is when my son tells me he's enjoying it. In January, we had a Pinewood work night at a church member's wood shop. It was FREEZING, and very tight quarters, and we couldn't talk when the band saw was going, and it was CRAZY for the adults trying to help 7 different boys while moving around the table and tools and freezing half to death.

 

When we got in the car, I think I was partially deaf, but I still heard my son say, "Now THAT... was FUN!"

 

Heh.

[AnnLaurelB]

UPDATE!

 

I emailed both my Commissioner and my Scout Exec and described this boy's behavior; they were both a little stunned that I hadn't tackled it sooner, but they understand that we're still trying to find our footing in this whole thing.

 

The Commissioner is looking at this schedule to find some available times where we might call the Cub and his grandma in for a come-to-Jesus about his disruptiveness.

 

At the very least, I'm going to suggest separate Dens for Web1 and Web2. If they reallyreally want to be in the program, he can do it separately so she can focus on him.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, it might be that they choose not to participate next year. But my Commissioner is firm in his resolve that we can't allow one poorly behaved kid to drive away entire families from our fledgling Pack.

 

From his email: "As CM you must keep in mind the good of the WHOLE unit and not so much the good of the individual pieces because as you are operating now, your good ones are leaving, the bad ones are staying and I dont think that is what you want and that is surely not what a fairly new unit needs in order to survive."

 

Also: "This is not an unusual situation in a unit but it is probably the most unpleasant to deal with. If you dont do something soon you will have others leave. Also you need to keep in mind that even though you and I think that scouting is a great program, it is not for everyone. You are a CM, not a wayward youth soul saver."

 

Don't you just wanna squeeze him and call him George?!? (But I won't do that; I'm sure it would make him uncomfortable. And wrinkle his uniform.)

[moosetracker]

Squeeze him, I can see.. Call him George???!?? Who is George??

 

He is echoing some of what we have been telling you, so good for him. And what he says is true, it is not uncommon.. Why we know to usually console a person on this forum that you have to look at what is for the good of the Whole unit..

 

Glad to see he is willing to work with you on the issue.. I have had UC's who bury their head in the sand at the first sign of trouble, and only poke their head out when the coast is clear..

[AnnLaurelB]

In a 1943 Bugs Bunny Cartoon, 'Falling Hare', the 'abominable snowman' grabs Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck saying, "I wanna hug him and squeeze him and call him George" with Mel Blanc doing an unmistakable imitation of Lon Chaney (of Mice and Men's Lenny).

 

This concludes the nerdgasm of the day.

[AnnLaurelB]

P.S. It's funnier to me to say that, because there's something about my UC that intimidates the snot outta me. I don't think it's him -- it's me. He just reminds me of a school principal or something.

 

You don't wrinkle your school principal.

[Oak Tree]

Doesn't everyone know this? Where's our cultural literacy going to these days? :-)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlVqfC8-UI

 

Try typing "hug him and squeeze him" into google with google instant turned on, and it will suggest completing the phrase with "and call him George." You can note that while this is the common version of the phrase, it does not appear in exactly this order in the actual cartoon.

[AnnLaurelB]

Adopt me.

[Lisabob]

One of my favorites! Too bad loony tunes are rarely on TV anymore.

 

AnnLaurelB, it sounds like you are working your way through this whole situation really well. Kudos to you, and I hope you'll keep posting here as your pack grows and changes. It is fun to read about other units' programs, and your enthusiasm is catching (even online).

 

 

[moosetracker]

OHHHHH... ok I know the one.. It got lost in the on-line translation of no voice in-tone-ations, and the fact I probably haven't seen the cartoon if over 20 years.. But, now that you describe it, it all comes back..

 

Carry on..

[AnnLaurelB]

"Hobby? Sure I've got a hobby. I have a Cub Scout!"

[Monkey Tamer]

Ann,

 

Ok, I guess I'm officially following you around the board. It's interesting to read issues from a fledgling CM. Besides, you're enthusiasm is infectious.

 

On to little Johnny (Georgie?). I like what the others have said. YOU are the law. Smacking another kid is grounds for instant discipline. Acting like a little jackwagon is similarly grounds for action. I understand your reluctance. I was a lot like you when I started doing this a million years ago. I agree. The kids who are trouble need Scouting more than anybody. When those kids would sometimes move to another school and out of my Pack or drop scouts, I would feel guilty about feeling so relieved and happy. I understand the addage "love the sinner, hate the sin." Too bad it's not so simple most of the time.

 

Unfortunately, the problem is that kids join scouting to have fun. And many parents are ambivelent at best. So if the events and meetings are not fun because of one guy, a group of guys, fire ants, Alien abduction or any other reason, the membership looks elsewhere or just drops out. You don't have much wiggle room and also not much back-up from your committee.

 

Definately have the sit-down with Georgie and Grandma. I would not wait until next year. But first decide on the desired results and consequences. Write it all up and make him sign it. If he makes it to the end of the year, good for him. Next year start over with a new plan.

 

I would never put this year's bears in with him. You'll have to be tough. If they want to keep doing the lone scout thing so be it, but shy momma is your best (only) bet. Tell her to have one meeting a month. take care of all the outings, craft projects and such for rank during that one meeting. The rest of the stuff they keep doing what they're doing. For that one meeting, and on paper, she's the man. Since they get along, they can split the work, but she's in charge that one meeting every month. She won't have to do anything iother than what she's doing already. If she balks, so be it. she can do EVERYTHING by herself and so can Mr. Personal Problems.

 

It would be good if this kid can pull it together for one more year and get into a troop. They might be able to square him away if it is full of strong male influence. (No Offense, but this kid needs that.).

 

Along the lines of the others, I like the reward idea. Maybe this guy needs some responsibility. It's an outside chance, but maybe he would feel some pride and want to do a good job if he was being counted on to help out with some progressively challenging tasks. I'm sure he's aware that everyone has low expectations of him. Maybe, just maybe, he'll respond to someone putting a little faith in him or counting on him to do something important to the Pack. I've seen holy terrors turn it around when they feel pride in themselves for the first time. not always though. And it takes time.

 

I just wanted to say: Good luck. We're all counting on you!

[AnnLaurelB]

That's okay. Everyone should have a cyber stalker. At least a friendly one! ;0)

 

"...not fun because of one guy, a group of guys, fire ants, Alien abduction or any other reason,..."

 

BWAHahahahah! Alien abduction. Heh.

 

Yeah, I feel a lot better now that I've resolved to do this. I think the WORST feeling was that of being stuck with him and just tolerating it and thinking we couldn't do anything about it.

 

Mr. Personal Problems (again LOL!) does have those, but he's still a Pack leader, a Committee member, and a Bear parent.

 

I talked with him today about getting our ducks on the same page about the problem boy, and he said that his son doesn't want to go on any more outings with the other kid.

 

Over the camping weekend, EVERY adult in attendance said something to me about him. I'm meeting with the Bear parents tomorrow about their Web1 den, then I'll talk with Mr. PP about some specific examples, and what the Behavior Contract will look like.

 

This has GOT to be one of the ickiest things a CM will have to do. But when that kid's NOT around, we have way too much fun to let him ruin then next year for us.

 

Again, thanks for the input, everyone! You have no idea how much it helps my ease of mind to know that I'm doing the right thing.

 

Or...maybe you do. :0)

 

 

[Monkey Tamer]

Good for you!

 

You're right. This part is no fun. But take heart. You've put up with a ration of, well, a ration of it from this boy for all the right reasons. You care about him even though he makes you crazy. Make sure you express that to he and his grandma. (except the ration part). She might not be adept at social graces, but she knows what's what with little Georgie. And chances are, he does too. Tell them that you really want him to have opportunities to excell and achieve things in life. Belt loops and patches are swell and all, but they represent something bigger than the bling. They show that the boy was able to achieve something. To some kids it's no big deal, but to some, it's a start.

 

Tell them that Georgie has a chance. That you really want him to make something of himself and to be able to develop friends and have a good time. Promise to do your part. Tell them you will work with the other boys to give him a chance. That you will try and find ways to help Georgie find direction. And that you will work hard to keep the events free of hard feeelings toward him. Because you DO care and ARE really interested in him succeeding.

 

But let them know that it is totally up to Georgie to make the decision to take advantage of everything you offer. Let them know that you have a job to make sure that ALL the boys are safe and well cared for and that they are getting everything THEY can get out of scouting too. The shennanigans have to stop, because it is keeping everyone from succeeding. Then after they see that you are going to be firm and have a definate plan to achieve harmony, it's totally up to them to play or walk. But they will be less likely to feel like it was some personal vendetta. You gave them the option.

 

Understand that this will take time and be hard. Follow through. If you see progress, stick to the plan. If not, well stick to the plan. At least you gave it a try and they knew it was coming.

 

As to rewards. For 8 years, I have used something that you might want to steal. At the scout store, they sell little brass coins. There is one that has the CS logo on one side with the motto around the edges. The other side has the promise. They're square. I think they run $3.95. Now, in my Pack, we call it the Cubmaster's coin. The requirements are pretty tight to earn it. I have to personnally witness the boy do something special that exemplifies what being a good scout is all about.

 

I often use it as a teaching moment. For instance, at our campout last weekend, some of the boys were throwing soda cans over a 15' cliff on the back side of our campsite. (It was hidden from view and they found it before we discovered it and made it off-limits). Turns out, three of my scouts, two bears and a tiger, got in the middle of the others and rebuked them. then they climbed down on the side and retrieved all the cans.

 

I called the pack together and on the spot called those three up and told all present what they did to reclaim our pack's virtue. Then we had a little come-to-Jesus talk about Leave no Trace. Point is, the others knew what they were doing was wrong and the boys standing around knew it was wrong, but did nothing. These three exhibited courage to do the right thing even in the face of peer pressure. Hence, at the next Pack Meeting, they will be be awarded the CM coin and we'll all learn the lesson again.

 

In your case, since you are small, maybe the requirements are a litle easier, but every boy still knows that they get rewarded for being a good example and acting right. Plus they get recognized in front of the whole group, parents included for earning your respect. It's been a powerful motivation tool for me. The boys know that the old man is ALWAYS watching his boys and that the guys who hold the CM coin are highly esteemed.

 

Not sure if Georgie will ever be a candidate, but maybe he'll be envious enough to try. Either way, it will effect the other guys.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to write you a book.

 

Cheers.