non-committal Committee

[AnnLaurelB]

On my "Hi, I'm new to the forums" post, someone asked me, "Are your Den leaders and Committee members doing their jobs?"

 

BWAHahahahahah! That's why I googled "cubmaster forum" and found this site!

 

No. No-no-na-no. They are not. The Chair just resigned (she's the Children's Minister at the Chartering church, and she's retiring). She wasn't *supposed* to be the Chair, anyway, as a staff member; she was just supposed to be a liason. But NO ONE would DO the job, so she has been the de facto Chair.

 

But she's leaving kind of abruptly; we are without Chair. The other members are

 

1) the deposed Cubmaster, who had some ...personal issues... and was asked to step down as CM but remain on the Committee as a member-at-large;

 

2) the founding Cubmaster, who is 78 years old, and an awesome Advancements Chair, but he's very clear that that's ALL that he is going to do;

 

3-5) men who the church asked to put their names on the roster so they could re-gain the Charter (which the church lost for about 5 years). They're really not interested in doing any actual legwork for the Pack. In fact, each of them has been known to simply get up and walk out of Committee meetings.

 

I don't see a new Chair rising out of the ashes, here...

 

Part of the CM's job is to "identify possible volunteers", and I sent (what I thought was) a pretty compelling email to everyone in the church who I thought appropriate, as well as to ALL of my parents, and got NOT ONE RESPONSE.

 

I'm going to have to hit the parents up at our next Pack meeting (the 25th), and just say, "SOMEONE has to step up!" But we're awfully small, yet, and we don't even have a Wolf or Bear leader (I lead the Wolves, too--my kid's den). We can't even get a parent to be those 2 Den leaders.

 

How can I get them to sit on the Committee? Let me ask this question, too: WHO are your Committee members? Are they just parents? Or are they NOT supposed to be parents?

 

HOW do you recruit Committee members??

[T2Eagle]

Our Pack has been operating with a committee on paper-only for years. Our den leaders are effectively the committee and the cubmaster is effectively the committee chair.

 

By most measures we continue to be successful we have 40 50 scouts year after year, our finances are strong, and we crossover a patrol of scouts to the troop each year so I think this is a model that can be replicated.

 

Most of cubbing happens in the den so I would concentrate your efforts recruiting den leaders.

 

[ScoutNut]

You said that you have 1 Wolf, and 2 Bear Cub Scouts. How many Tigers, 4th grade Webelos, and 5th grade Webelos, do you have?

 

It almost sounds like you have barely over the number of youth needed to recharter (5).

 

Going to the members of your Charter Organization for leadership is a good idea - if they are interested. It sounds like they want the nice publicity of being able to say they charter a Cub Scout Pack, but do not want to do anything to make that a reality. Probably why their charter lapsed for 5 years!

 

You need to get the head of your Charter Organization to at least find a new Charter Organization Representative for your Pack. Maybe one who will also consent to register as, and do the work of, the Committee Chair. Currently, with the registered adults you have, you will not be able to recharter. Of course your Charter Org might just register more "ghost" people to push the charter thru. However, that does not help your Pack at all. What you need to do to become a viable Pack is to recruit your heads off. That is the only way you will increase your volunteer pool, and your number of youth members.

 

How large is the church? Does it have any young families on its roles, or are the members mostly older, with no young children any more? How many of your Pack families are members of this church?

 

If the church has youth members, you can start your recruiting efforts there. Be visible in the church. Do service projects for them. Hold your Scout Sunday service there. Ask for their help in getting your Scouts earning their Religious Emblems. Ask if you can put up fliers advertising your Pack. Put Pack notices in the church newsletter.

 

School recruiting can be touchy. It depends on what the School District, and the school's principal, allow. Many public schools do not allow any recruiting of any kind in school. Getting an in-school boy talk, and recruiting is what your District Executive is currently trying to put together. Keep your fingers crossed this will work.

 

In the mean time -

 

Can your son (and the other Cubs) pass out invites to classmates? Do you, and the other Pack parents, ever talk to any of the other parents at school, or Park District, functions? Have everyone talk up your Pack to other parents at every opportunity. Have all parents, and Scouts, personally invite 1 or 2 (at least) boys, and their parents, to a fun Pack activity.

 

Use your local newspaper. Put in recruitment notices in the Community Events section. Get a reporter out to take pictures, and do a small interest blurb of a Pack event.

 

Put up fliers in your local library. Ask the library if you can put up a display on your Pack, and it's activities.

 

You asked who our Packs use for Committee Members. In my Pack, most of the jobs on the Committee are usually done by den leaders. We also have some former Pack parents who have stayed active with the Pack when their sons moved on to Boy Scouts. Even though the den leaders are on the Committee, we are not really hurting for volunteers. All dens have at least 2 registered leaders, and some have 3-4. We also have great parents who help out in lots of different ways.

[Twocubdad]

My first stop would be to have a cup of coffee with the founding CM. He knows the program and my hunch is he knows the church and community. At 78 I wouldn't expect him to do a lot, but he can be an incredible resource. Ask his advice and for suggestions for some folks like himself who may be "retired" Scouters but may be willing to lend a hand on the committee.

 

How big is your pack? What sort of parent involvement do you have now? I mean do you have a lot of parents who could help if properly motivated and organized or are you in a depressed with a lot of single-parent homes who really don't have the means to get involved (or obviously something in between)? How big is the church? Are they appointing someone to replace the retiring pastor as you laison (aka Chartered Organization Representative)?

 

In other words, what resources do you have?

[KISMIF_Works]

Hi and welcome to the forums! I have found this place to be a great source of information and ideas, and I hope you have the same experience.

 

I read and then re-read your post, and could still have missed this already but how many scouts do you currently have in your Pack? How many Den Leaders do you have?

 

This is my experience only, it may not follow the ideals presented in the BSA materials, but here goes...

 

When I first volunteered to be the Den Leader for my older son's Wolf Den 4 years ago, I was informed by the CM at the time that I should attend the monthly Committee Meetings. I was excited to be a part of the program planning. However, it turned out that I was in the minority. It wasn't uncommon during that first year for just 3 people total to be in attendance at a Committee Meeting. Our Pack's only Committee Member that wasn't CM/DL was the Treasurer, who wasn't able to attend the Committee Meetings.

 

Fast-forward to now and as the CM I chair Committee Meetings with around 15 people in attendance! We have 6 Committee Members who aren't CM/DL, and they regularly attend the Committee Meetings. All of our leaders are parents with boys in the Pack. Our COR never attends any of our Committee Meetings as they are pretty hands-off.

 

I've seen the BSA organization chart and I know that the CM isn't the head of the Committee, but for us it works out that way. It just turns out that I really enjoy planning and organizing the program, and the people I have around me are very supportive and helpful but don't want to be the "leader". Really I don't think it matters as long as somebody is willing to be the "leader", present a vision, be positive and enthusiastic, and encourage participation and feedback from others.

 

Think of your current DLs as the basis for your "functioning" Committee, and after that in my opinion focus on a Treasurer first and Advancements Chair second! I am kind of paranoid about finances and think a Treasurer is essential to maintaining financial transparency. The Advancements Chair is pretty much required now by the use of online advancements and its dependency on a single person maintaining that information.

 

Recruiting those two positions shouldn't be too hard in my experience because they are "background" positions that don't require the adult to wear a uniform or get in front of a crowd. The tricky part is identifying individuals to fill those roles, which is where the existing DLs should be valuable. I find that DLs know quite a bit about which parents in their Den are and *are not* good candidates.

 

Next you need to focus on making Committee Meetings efficient, effective and enjoyable in order to get adults to donate some of their free time to attend:

- Prepare an agenda and stick to it! I email a rough copy out in advance of the meeting to give people an advance opportunity to think about what we'll be discussing. I find it really helps me keep the meeting moving so that we finish business discussions within 1 hour.

- For each topic be prepared to present your vision for how it should work, and then present options when you think a consensus decision is required. I find it helps us keep things moving if we are discussing options a, b and c versus just open-ended deliberation.

- Keep things loose and lively! Make the meeting enjoyable and upbeat so that it feels less like work.

 

This year I've focused on keeping the meetings to within an hour (they used to drag on for close to 2 hours!), and have observed that the adults are willing to hang around for another half hour or so afterwards just to chat.

 

[AnnLaurelB]

Thanks for all of your replies.

 

We have 2 Tigers, 6 Wolves (mine + 5) (I lead that Den), 2 Bears, 1 Web1, and 2 Web2's who are aging out at the end of May.

 

When my Web2's go, I'll have 11 boys, assuming they all come back after summer break. I have planned a pretty cool summer calendar, so hopefully they'll all stay involved!

 

ScoutNut hit it on the head about the church--almost all older folks with no kids. I AM one of the ONLY "young families" there. The deposed CM and his kids go there, but the rest of the Pack all attend other churches.

 

Our Charter Rep of course sits on the Committee, but he's also this/that/the other thing within the church. He does his best, but he's spread a bit thin. My hope is that he will at least be Chair on paper.

 

I have passed out little colorful invites to the boys on several occasions, but we've never gotten a response from those. That doesn't mean they should stop going out sometimes, though!

 

I'm leading the Wolves, one of the Tiger dad is registered as their leader, but he's in school, and they miss a LOT of stuff. The other Tiger I've pulled along with the Wolves so he'll advance, but the Tiger leader kid? I don't know. He just put his name down so there'd be a Den.

 

The Bears have no leader, but those 2 are about to go Web1, anyway with the remaining Web1-becoming-Web2. They have a leader, no problem for this coming year.

 

I'll have to follow the Wolves-to-Bear, it looks like, or my own son won't have a Den leader. Tigers-to-Wolves I don't know if that dad will be Wolf leader.

 

I thought Den leaders *couldn't* be on the Committee. They can do the legwork, of course, but officially, they're not supposed to be, right?

 

There's like 3 kids in the youth group, my daughter being one of them. She does help with her brother's Den sometimes, and she came camping with us last weekend.

 

I guess in actuality we're doing okay as long as I hold up. But my concern is that as we grow (and I hope we do) it's going to be too much, and no one will step up. "Well, you were doing it alone all this time..."

 

Most of my parents are single moms. A few families, but the dads all work ridiculous hours. They're all very sweet and come to everything that they can, but it's mostly single moms. Which is ironic because here I am the Cubmaster, and I TOOK my kid to Scouts so that he'd have MALE role models. Riiiight.

 

Turns out no one else has any, either. But still. We're having fun. I just don't want to end up a train wreck. The founding CM guy is a sweetheart; he's made it clear that Advancements is all he wants to do (he likes to come to Pack meeting in his uniform).

 

I don't know if I can schmooze him into being the Chair; his wife seems to resent him even doing what he does with us. But it's worth a shot.

 

I like the idea of putting up flyers at the library, and our Exec is supposed to be working on getting me a school recruiting night.

 

Thanks for all of your input; a lot to mull over! :0)

[AnnLaurelB]

P.S.

 

With regard to the Committee meetings, I DO send out an agenda before, and I DO present everything with "Oooh! I have this fun idea! What do you think??" The meetings really do roll along pretty well, and are over in no more than 60-70 minutes!

 

So I guess that's not too bad! The guys on the Committee are pretty willing to say "Yes" to whatever I ask, as long as THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

 

Our money sitch is pretty good; we DO have a treasurer who keeps the account neatly. But he won't keep the Individual Scout Accounts. I have to do that myself, and report to him each month what the liability amount is for them, as a total against the balance showing in the check book. *sigh*

 

I have a few parents that I think would be AWESOME on the Committee, but it's a matter of getting them there. On another thread, someone mentioned that you can't just CALL for volunteers. You don't know WHO might show up!

 

But I/We are going to have to identify possible appropriate folks, and get them to look us in the eye, and ask them to do it.

 

What does Rex say, in Toy Story? "I don't LIKE confrontation!" :0)

[AnnLaurelB]

Oh, and KISMIF, I don't mind planning the program, either! That's what I'm pretty good at--being the Cruise Director/Ring Master!

 

And I only have 2 Den leaders, one of whom is 85% absent. The Webs leader and I ARE the de facto planners/executers. But someone made the point that Cubbing takes place mostly in Dens.

 

If I can find Den leaders, they'll do the committee "work" as it were. But some people don't like being responsible for lessons and stuff. I need THOSE people on the Committee.

[SeattlePioneer]

When I got involved in my pack 2 1/2 years ago there was one Cub Scout in it.

 

I call our committee the "Parent Committee" any parent is welcome and encouraged to attend.

 

My rule has been that committee meetings last no more than an hour. I think that encourages parents to attend.

 

Secondly, I hold meetings at a convenient Starbucks coffeeshop. The advantages are that it's always available, no reservations are required, and parents who want to treat themselves can do so, and those whop don't don't.

 

We always hold parent meetings on the last Monday of the month.

 

That has worked well. I've never had a meeting flop.

 

I have a new committee chair who plans to make changes in that model, but it's her meeting and she is entitled to do so.

 

REGULARITY and PREDICTABILITY are important. People can get in the habit of attending parent meetings if they are useful and fun for adults.

 

I also experimented with giving 20-30 minutes time at parent meetings to Den Leaders to plan their activities with parents, but that didn't seem to be used much by Den Leaders ---I don't know why. I still think it's a keen idea.

 

 

 

[AnnLaurelB]

"Parent Committee"! I love that!

 

I also like the phrasing of "changing the model", as it would relate to me presenting the idea of a "Parent Committee" to the parents.

 

If I could get enough regularly attending parents to REGISTER as Committee members, then the poor schlubs who we're torturing just so we have enough Committee members could be put out of their misery.

 

As long as we keep our Rep/Liason from the church (charter org), we'd still have our Advancement Chair (he loves it), and our Events guy (the one other parent on the Com).

 

I do like the idea of announcing that we're "changing the model", and they need to participate...the sticky wicket will be GETTING them there!

 

We don't have a Starbucks. Nor a Denny's. Nor even a Taco Bell. (Helloooooo rural area!) But we have a McDonald's. OMG! We have a BURGER KING with a PLAYGROUND!

 

Sweet Winged Michael! That could be the answer! They could throw their kids outside together during Committee meetings.

 

We may be on to something...keep talking... ;0)

[Twocubdad]

At one point, and I don't know if it's still the practice, pack committees were referred to as "leaders meetings" in recognition of the fact that most are comprised of den leaders and more conventional committee members. I think that's still a good way to look at it. Most of the pack program occurs in either den meetings or pack meetings, so it makes sense those leaders are part of the "committee."

 

Beyond that, you need to build your other committee members around functions. You need someone to take BALOO (Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation) training so they can lead a couple pack campouts a year. You need a treasurer. Then you need folks to handle the one-off activities, like Pinewood Derby, popcorn sales and Blue & Gold Banquet.

 

But really, as others have written, your first priority should be recruiting scouts. Call your district executive and find out what recruitment opportunities the district has you can plug into. As CM, the committee really isn't your problem anyway. When you recruit Scouts you recruit parents. Begin on Day One building the expectation that the pack is parent led and all parents must contribute.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Yep, a Cub Scout Committee meeting is really a Pack Leaders Meeting.

 

To charter you need to register a MINIMUM of 1 Committee Chair, and 2 Committee Members.

 

Your registered Charter Org Rep can also dual register as your Committee Chair (CC). With a registered Committee Member as Treasurer, a registered Committee Member as Advancement Chair, a registered Cubmaster (CM), and one registered den leader, you have met the minimum number of adult volunteers to be able to charter.

 

You need to ask parents to step up to do things. They don't have to be big things (Committee Chair), or be registered. You said that over the summer you have planned a Pack outing for every other week (pretty ambitious for a small Pack with little help!). Ask a parent, face-to-face, to take on planning, coordinating, running, each one of those summer outings. It is only a one time event, so it should not be to complicated, or difficult, but it will get them involved, and take it off of YOUR plate.

 

With so many single moms you most likely do not have any who pick up their kids after school. Most of your Scouts probably attend after school care of some kind. Would it be easier to reach the boys there for a recruitment talk?

 

Invites do not have to come from you. They actually work better if they come from the boys themselves. We have had good success with the Scouts talking up Scouting to their buddies, and adults talking it up to their parents. I had one Tiger, and his single mom, recruit 2 more boys for their den from the Tiger's Park District Swim Team.

 

You should know the other 5 families in your Wolf den fairly well by now. Are there any that seem to be really interested in the program? Any that work well with the boys, and enjoy doing it? Pick the one that you feel would make the best den leader, and talk to them face to face. Explain that you can not continue to do everything. Clearly explain the challenges. Tell them about all of the training, and resources, BSA, and the Pack, has to help them. Be able to counter any qualms they might have. If, that does not pan out, go to the next best one, and do the same thing. Folks are must more likely to say yes to a one-on-one request. Especially if you can offer them lots of help and backup.

 

I noticed you said you had Scout accounts. How does that work with such a small Pack? Why are there monthly changes to the accounts?

[AnnLaurelB]

I did get a parent to run the popcorn sale, but then she had to go and have a baby, so that was her last input. Dumb baby! (just kidding. she's wonderful!)

 

I organized PineWood and B&G, but delegated most of the tasks.

 

I'm BALOO trained, as is the former CM-cum-EventsChair. I don't mind being the BALOO tag on campouts. But you're right--there should be more, so in case I can't go, or have to leave.

 

Our school is on break this week, but next week, I'll approach the principal about a spring recruiting night. I think you're right about focusing on bringing more boys in. If their parents WANT the program, they'll pitch in.

 

We do have a treasurer on the Committee, but I need a parent to keep the Individual Scout Accounts.

 

I did speak to our Scout Exec about this, and we did talk about how funny that this whole time, the Committee was made up of entirely people who have NO CUB SCOUTS. The Chair was an old lady, and the 4 members-at-large are just men from the church whose kids are all grown.

 

The parents have been bringing their kids to a program over which they, the parents, have NO input! How ironic is that?!?

 

So yes! I love the idea of changing the model and calling them Planning Meetings or Leader/Parent Meetings or Parent Input Meetings or SOMETHING!

 

That word "Committee" makes people run screaming!

[AnnLaurelB]

No, I meant that I printed up little invites for the BOYS to give out at school! :0)

 

We JUST started Indiv Cub Accts after this past popcorn sale. We had 10 registered cubs; we sold $1050 worth of popcorn. Please hold your applause.

 

And now we're selling the Camp Cards, so my Commissioner suggested we keep track of each boy's portion toward camp in an ICA system (which is a photcopied check register, basically, for each kid).

 

They can use the money if they want to pay up their dues, or if I say, "We're going bowling for BeltLoops! Bring $7!" They can use the money for that. We just got Pack t-shirts; if they had money in there they could choose to pay for a shirt with it. It's a good system!

 

My Wolf parents are 4 single moms and one mom/dad. The dad is awesome, and helps when he can, but he works crazy hours and can't make a lot of the meetings. Two of the moms speak Spanish and are very timid. One mom doesn't have the personality for it...the last mom MAYBE. Her son JUST signed up a few weeks ago. I don't know her well, yet. We'll see.

 

Our Rep is still with us--the Exec is going to try to get him to fill in as Chair.

 

I think y'all have pretty much answered the question--the answer is to focus on recruiting KIDS, not adults!!

 

The summer calendar I put together isn't too onerous; it's more like every 2 1/2 - 3 weeks. I'm really using stuff that I'd be doing, anyway. (CM's privilege!). I live across the street from a park that does Concerts in the Park. I'm inviting the Pack to picnic in my front yard one Friday night.

 

I'm going on vacation in July. Happens to be a water park nearby. Happens that I always take my son there. Happens that I put it on the Pack calendar for whomever wants to show up. No planning necessary. :0)

 

Free Kid Fishing Day at the Fairgrounds? I'd take my son, anyway. PUT IT ON THE CALENDAR! :0) See? I just banged off copies of the flyer, handed them out, and said, "Be there if you want to!"

 

My son's birthday is in August. I booked the pavillion at the swimming hole. It just so happens that I put THAT on the Pack calendar. "SWIMMING HOLE AND JT'S BIRTHDAY!"

 

So that part's easy.

 

I'm really loving the idea of telling them, "Parent/Leader meeting, 6:00 every 3rd Wed at Burger King!" I think that's the key! PARENT MEETINGS (not "committee") and recruiting.

 

I can make stuff fun! That's what I'm good at. But then I need people to pick up from there and do the legwork.

[SeattlePioneer]

The Burger King with the play equipment sounds terrific to me!

 

Ideally you'd be in view of the play equipment so at least one parent can step in to keep order if need be.

 

 

There's a strategy for getting new parents started as leaders.

 

As one of my methods, I ask parents to fill out a simple form in which they check off the kinds of things they are either GOOD at doing or things they would LIKE to do to help the den and pack.

 

They fill this out along with the youth application.

 

I emphasize that by filling it out they aren't agreeing to do anything ---- it's just a tool to help pack leaders get to know parents.

 

That works pretty well. Usually it can be weeks or months before pack leaders get to know new parents well enough to figure out what they can do to help the pack. With this method, the parents tell you right up front.

 

Ideally within aq week you have someone call the new parent to welcome them to the pack, answer any questions they have and to ask them to help with some task that needs to be done, usually a simple one.

 

 

The boys I recruit this spring will form a temporary Bobcat Den which I will lead to move those boys rapidly through the Bobcat requirements and insure that the boys and families have a series of quality Cub Scout experiences.

 

Our recruiting night May 9th will have boys and parents making stomp bottle rockets. While boys are launching their rockets and winning endorsement stickers for their Rocket Pilot License, we will be signing up families.

 

At the end of the recruiting night boys have learned what "doing your best" means through the rocket launch, and they are elgible to get that Bobcat requirement signed off.

 

The following week we work on additional Bobcat requirement and prepare for a Bobcat hike that weekend, which includes a hotdog roast. This is the introduction for boys and families for what a quality Cub Scout outing should look like and feel like.

 

We have another couple of Bobcat meetings before our June overnight camp and crossover, at which point all boys form their new dens.

 

The new parents will be expected to be leaders at the overnight camp, presenting various activities from crafts to cooking and such.

 

Any new parent who doesn't help at the campout is at the top of the list to help with every additional activity of the pack until they help.

 

And I have a Scoutparent Coordinator whose job it is to welcome new parents to the pack and sign up parents for tasks that need to be done. It's fine if a parent tells the Scoutparent Coordinator they are too busy to help with a particular activity, but the Coordintaor will just be calling back in a week or two with the next task, the next task or the next task, until they agree to help.

 

Or at least that's the way I'm hoping it will work ---- we just added that position for the new year. Our ScoutParent co-ordinator did just sign up our newest parent to be our Day Camp Coordinator.