Webelos 1 with 20 pins - now what?

[trainerlady]

I have a friend with a son in a very poorly run Cub Pack with untrained leadership. Her son has Aspergers (Autisim)and her family uses scout activities as a reward system for proper behavior. Mom is a fully trained leader (only one in pack and they won't list her on the charter) but due to work schedules can't DL. He loves scouting and to help his social skills the family takes him to just about every council and district event there is. He does summer resident camp, cub day camps (3 of them last summer) every year. Last year he was the only boy in his den to either type of camp. As a result he has earned all 20 Webelos pins, a belt full of loops and the matching pins, and has completed all of his AoL requirements except the age/grade part. He won't be eligible for cross-over/AoL until December of this year.

 

Here's the problem - his den leader and den members are deliberately excluding from activities and meetings. The den doesn't have a set meeting night. This week's meeting was set to occur while the scout in question would be at the local Cathedral for his religious medal presentation (the Archdiocese has a special mass 1 time a year mass to recognize all scouts - boys/girls, campfire members and other youth groups that earn medals it's a BIG deal if you are Catholic). Mom addressed the situation with the DL and was told "big deal he's already done it". Well it is a big deal because the main reason he started scouts was to work on social skills. This is the 4-5 time this has happened this year. Den members call him names, luckly he doesn't get it.

 

DL tells boy to sit down and shut up when he tries to help the others learn to do something he knows how to do. DL complains about boy's bad behaviour in front of the rest of the den. Boy doesn't like sitting (one of his quirks), DL sees this as misbehaving. The DL says she won't give boy AoL until a year from now because "they don't do early advancement in this pack". they all have to get a rank at the same time or its not FAIR, someone will have their feelings hurt because boy has his done first. (This pack hasn't crossed a boy over in 5 YEARS, no AoL in anyone's memory, never had a 20 pinner)Yet after a lot of fighting with Mom, DL and CM boy was given Webelos in November, rest of boys got theirs last week.

 

Boy has found a troop he loves that loves him back. The troop has several ASD kids and just lets them be. He fits in, loves it and is talking about being an Eagle. DL stated she didn't even know what and Eagle was and why would you want to be one.

 

Other than transfering Packs does anyone have any ideas? Boy goes to school with his den mates. Another pack could be very difficult for him to settle into due to his ASD. I say go play with the troop regularly, do Pack meetings and activities and push for December cross-over AoL.

 

All thoughts welcomed.

 

Thanks,

TL

 

 

[Eagle707]

If his ASD would keep him from transferring to another pack, then my advice would be to have your friend call the local council and see about registration as a Lone Cub Scout. Because the Arrow of Light requires den activities, he either needs to do them with his own den or become his own den. Keeping this boy in the pack is a disservice to his devotion to Scouting. The AoL and the youth religious award are the two Cub Scout awards that transfer to the adult uniform: he should not be deprived of the opportunity to earn the Arrow of Light.

 

From the BSA's Lone Scout page:

"Lone Scouts include... Boys with disabilities that might prevent them from attending regular meetings of packs or troops."

 

I think ASD should qualify in this case: go directly to the council on this one and request that he be registered as a Lone Cub Scout (and his mother can be registered as his Lone Scout Counselor). Then once that's done, encourage him and his counselor to pursue supplementary Scouting programs:

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Cub_Scout_Awards

 

Also, because he's a Catholic Scout, there are many supplementary awards available through the National Catholic Committee on Scouting. Actually, because they come in multiple series and foci, I would almost encourage him to check these out first and share them with other members of his parish (it may give him a substitute "unit" atmosphere).

http://nccs-bsa.org/activities/index.php

 

The third thing he can do is keep earning belt loops. He can either get a second belt or he can get a display for the extras. ScoutStuff has a frame for this purpose:

http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=NEW&c3=&c4=&lv=2&item=611318&SRC=HP&ET_CID=HP_RI_beltloop_holder

 

Then, as a final touch, consider this for December (after he's earned AoL and has turned 10): invite this troop's Scoutmaster and some other members to do a crossover ceremony for this young Scout. Go overboard if you want: you can get some logs and some planks from the hardware store to make a bridge for him.

 

Thank you for taking an interest in your friend's son. Check these out if you want to recognize him for his already impressive feats:

 

http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/SearchPage.aspx?page=LIST&free_text|=webelos%20super&answers_per_page=15

(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

[Eliza]

TL

I wish I had enough experience to give you some scouting-specific ideas. All I can do is say that I read your post over several times and I feel so terrible for the boy. It must be beyond frustrating -- if it were just one dimwitted leader, that would be difficult. But to have all the boys in his den excluding the boy and calling him names, and to have them in the same school -- that is so wrong ethically and morally. Sure the boy could go on earning extra awards, but I see that is not the whole point of his scouting -- he needs the social interaction.

 

One thing I was wondering about -- if much of the den is from this boy's school, are they teasing him there too? Perhaps the mother could visit the guidance counsellor (or case manager, presuming the boy has an IEP) at the school and discuss the situation. Laws against bullying are getting stricter in many states, and some states give schools responsibility for bullying that occurs out of school, if it involves students at the school.

 

One reason I'd suggest getting the school involved is that they have a vested (including legal, perhaps) interest in helping the boy, while the DL not only doesn't care, but is also part of the problem. Also the boy spends more time with his den mates in school than in scouting.

 

I am curious why you asked what could be done, OTHER than finding another pack. In our area, there are some packs whose leaders have AS kids. They "get" it. Their hearts are in the right place, and they know what to do. That kind of person knows how to make a new boy welcome. And often, if you have a leader who is good with kids who need extra guidance, parents who appreciate those skills find the pack, so you end up with a good parent group. If I were the mother and could find a pack that would support my son, I'd move there. You did say that was not part of the equation, but I felt I had to say that anyway. Sorry!

[Basementdweller]

Trainer lady

 

I would talk to the SM of the troop he would be crossing over too and see if they would let him be a guest until he is old enough to join. I would ask the CM and advancement chair to award him his AOL early and then bid them farewell. At this late date you are not going to change them and no sense wasting the energy trying, far as training goes, I have found it is perception, Trained leaders can run a pack just as poorly as untrained leaders. Just because you know the rules and guidelines doesn't mean your going to follow them.

 

far as the den leaders scheduling maliciously, it is a matter of opinion. I know that I cannot make everyone happy when I schedule an event. I hope his parents did not sign off on his requirement completion.......With 3 summer camps they really didn't need to....

 

The logic I am following is,

 

since his den or pack does not do summer camp, no loss

since they are not treating him like another of the boys, no loss

Name calling, no loss

Unmotivated unscout like leaders, no loss

 

Ask for them to award it early then bid them farewell. We have a boy who is guest of the troop, of course he doesn't understand or even care, he is in scouting and having a blast.

 

I would sign him up for Cub camp this summer and take him just like prior years and in the fall I would have him attend the troop meetings and outings.

 

[Greaves]

I think the "Lone Scout" idea is a good one. I would also find out if council has a special needs professional available for advice. There might be a Pack that would welcome this boy, that would really help meet his social needs in a group that understands & accepts.

[perdidochas]

I think your suggestion is the best. If the troop accepts him, let him be a visitor until 6 months after his 10th birthday (which is the earliest he can crossover). It's a shame that the DL was unscoutlike, and didn't try to make things better (instead of worse). Yes, ASD kids can be frustrating at times, but the DL was missing a chance to help both of them. If ASD boy knew the stuff, let him help the other kids. Win-win.

[Hawkrod]

Wow, I have been here! LOL Fortunately the den leader did not last long. As I have mentioned before, both my son and I have Asperger's and it can be difficult as many of these kids are miles ahead of the rest and there will be some that will tear them down for their accomplishments. I will warn you that it will not always be better in Boy Scouts as there will be people there that do the same thing. I was accused of signing off my sons merit badges and this person went to the merit badge counciler coordinator to complain and also told others that my son did not do it. The sad part was he had earned all but one MB at camp and later at Jambo. He is now working on MBs with Troop members and going to councilers but it was hard to get there because of the accusations (BTW, he has been a Scout for less than 2 years and is Life with 24 MB's). The fix for us was a new den with a new leader who was willing to actually utilize his abilities and now a SM who does the same. My son earned all 20 pins (be sure to get that boy the Super Achiever patch and certificate!) and went on to help the other boys get all of theirs as well. In the Troop he is now an Instructor and although there have been moments, I keep an eye on him and all of the membership knows he has issues. His knowledge and ability to teach other boys is unsurpassed but sometimes it can be intimidating to other boys and especially their parents who hate the thought that somebody is "ahead" of "Johnny". It isn't supposed to be a race but when anybody gets "ahead" there are people who will take issue with it. Smart people will take advantage of it!

[Basementdweller]

Lone scout is not what this young man needs or craves......He needs socialization... He wants to be with boys who love scouting as he does.

 

 

Lone scout is a horrible idea.

 

Talk to the SM, I bet he will allow it.

[Eagle707]

Sorry for the confusion. I did not mean to advocate keeping him isolated. I omitted my idea on the troop: absolutely continue visiting the troop and participating in activities as a guest. I suggested registering as a Lone Scout strictly for advancement purposes and earning his Arrow of Light. Since he can't earn Boy Scout awards, Lone Scouting gives him the opportunity to earn awards "legitimately" while participating with his future troop and getting a Scouting experience.

[BadenP]

TL

 

Another idea might be create a whole new set of activities for him that he can do during his den meetings while the others are still working on their badges. Some ideas, get some older scout handbooks with activities no longer in the current handbooks like map and compass orienteering, basic lashings, nature collections, morse code, star charting, etc. There are inexpensive generic recognition patches you can get at the scout store or National Supply for like a dollar apiece, and present to him at pack meetings. It will take a DL with patience and some imagination but give the boy a whole new set of challenges making him less disruptive in the meetings. I agree with the others the Lone Scout program is NOT the way to go with this boy.

[moosetracker]

I think the lone Scout is fine, as long as it is coupled with moving him into the troop activities as a guest, until he becomes of age..

 

BP - the idea for the other activities may be fine to challenge him intellectually, but the den leader is already discribed as not working with him.. Therefore the parent would need to do it.. I myself would feel more socially isolated if in a group of 20 where 18 are doing something in one area, and me and my mom are in a different area, doing our own thing.. It would seem less socially isolated if I was in a group of 2 to begin with..

 

If the troop has worked with boys like this before, I would expect the troop will know how to keep him challenged beyond the focus of normal boys, while including him into the group.. It is great they can tear through scouting ranks.. But also sad, because soon they will have done all Scouting has to offer, then be unchallenged again.. I guess doing all the MB in the list rather then just 21 of them does slow it down a little..

[kari_cardi]

It would be a shame for the boy to miss his AOL because his den would not let him participate as an active member for the six month requirement, and a shame if they won't let him crossover 'early' as compared to the other den members. I can see that going Lone Wolf to fulfill his advancement requirements and using the friendly Troop to meet his social needs could be a good work-around solution. He obviously doesn't need the den to complete his other requirements, he already has them done!

 

I hate to say it, but reading here and some IRL experiences I've had recently make me think that BSA needs to add some mandatory disability awareness training to the list.

[BadenP]

Moose

 

I had a boy in my unit with Asbergers a while back, it wasn't what he was doing as much as being with the kids he knows. Besides in this case this cub has already completed all his requirements the other kids are working on. In my experience these kids need to be constantly challenged with new experiences/activities. IMO, this den leader needs to have a talking to and receive some disability awareness training ASAP.

As long as this boy is on his medications there is no reason he can not be an active and productive part of this den, and not a disruption.

[SeattlePioneer]

What it looks like on the other side of the fence....

 

 

I was a troop leader in a troop with an AS Scout. It created a variety of problems and misunderstandings between the Scout, Scout parent and troop leadership.

 

While a high achieving professional, the Scout's father had fallen into the trap of being 'way overprotective.

 

Frankly, when the Scout applied for Eagle, I would have assessed him as being about 2nd class in terms of skills and maturity.

 

When the Scoutmaster declinedto approve his Scoutmaster conference for Life, the father (Committee Chair) went ahead and signed off on the approval. No need for a Board of Review.

 

The Scoutmaster again refused to sign off on his Eagle SM conference as well. Frankly, I think that was entirely justified.

 

The previous summer this Scout had been trapped in the summercamp shower house, unable to get his pants on (literally). On the last day of camp he refused to get out of his sleeping bag and get packed up until he was forcibly evicted from his sack.

 

And his father signed off most of his merit badges for Eagle.

 

Unless carefully explained and understood, things like that can cause resentment. And parents who are enmeshed with their child may not be the best judges of what's going on in such situations.

 

In Webelos, it's the den leader that is supposed to sign off on requirements (I'm not sure if that's true for pins and such). Was it the den leader or the parents who signed off on all those pins?

 

 

In the situation described above, the parent and Scout departed for a troop composed of AS Scouts. Probably a good thing.

 

 

And it's evidence that parents need to be careful in dealing with troop leaders too, or you may replicate the problems and misunderstandings in Boy Scouts.

[Eliza]

>>I hate to say it, but reading here and some IRL experiences I've had recently make me think that BSA needs to add some mandatory disability awareness training to the list.