Crossover

[jamist649]

Our Pack is preparing for crossover which will be held in conjuction with a Pack campout in April. Our Webelos II consists of 7 boys who will be crossing over. Here's the problem (at least *I* think it's a problem). I am the CM of this Pack. My Son is a Web I and we've known (along with EVERY boy in his Den) where we were going to cross for a year now, at least. We are from a small town and we have historically crossed over to the local Troop that gives us our Den chiefs, helps us at events, etc. We are lucky to have such a reliable and willing partner and helper in the Troop. Ok, fast forward to now. One of the parents is convinced that the current SM in our town in "too old" to carry on an active Troop. This couldn't be further from the truth. He has been SM for 20+ years and has more knowledge about Scouting in his little finger that most of the SM, CM, etc in the district put together. She (the parent) has made the decision that HER son will cross from our Pack to a Troop in the next town over. This Troop has never offered to help us out (which I guess is normal, they have thier own Pack in the next town over also) and we have had very little communication with them. Now, I know I have read on this forum before that it's up to the boy as to where he crosses, etc...BUT this is HIGHLY unusual for a boy from our town to cross anywhere else. I think it's a slap in the face of the local Troop that has done so much. I think it's also more about the next town over being a little more "affluent" than we are. I am TWO INCHES away from telling her that if she wants her son to cross to that Troop she needs to take him to the PACK over there too! Ok, so not big deal right? She/he (presumably) wants to cross over there so let him..Ok. HERE'S the BIG problem: She is starting to influence the other boys. Trash talking this Troop that has done SO MUCH for us and telling the other parents what they need to do. The WII DL is "undecided" himself as to what to do (so he says) and is no help. I am EMBARRASSED to stand in our town and "export" our boys out of town when we have not one but TWO functioning troops in our own town. The local Troop kind of needs our boys to fill out thier younger patrol and I am so ashamed that we are (in my mind) breaking our promise. Am I being overly sensitive or should I tell them how I feel?

[ScoutNut]

As to what Boy Scout Troop this Scout and his family choose to go to - YES, you are being over sensitive, very over sensitive. What Troop a family decides to go to is a very PERSONAL choice, and one you would be very rude to criticize. This is why BSA recommends that Webelos dens visit different BS Troops. There is really no such thing as a one-size-fits-all Troop.

 

What is not right is the parent "trash talking" the Troop the other Webelos are considering crossing to. That, also, is just rude, however, it might just be as a consequence of your behavior toward that family. Something to think about?

 

I suggest, talking to this parent, and the den leader, and letting them know that their Scouts are supposed to be learning to live by the Scout Oath and Law in their everyday life, and that "trash talking" is against every point of the Scout Oath and Law, and is setting a very bad example for the Scouts.

 

I would also suggest, that as CM, you make sure to let the Webelos families know - sincerely - that where they choose to continue their Scouting trail, is entirely up to them. You should also make sure they know that the Pack will invite leaders from any Troop they decide to join, to the Crossover Campout.

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting question, jam.

 

As a CM myself, I'm glad to hear that your troop is providing you with the support your pack needs to continue to maintain a quality program.

 

Second, while your resentment of the family proposing to move to the out of town troop is understandable, they are entitled to do that for a good reason or a poor one.

 

However, you don't need to let that jawboning go on unanswered.

Perhaps you can make a point of discussing the advantages and the quality program of the local troop, the experience of the Scoutmaster and the assistance they provide to the pack.

 

You can send out e-mails, invite troop leaders to be presenters at your pack meetings and have the pack invite the Webelos den over to work on advancement or go on a camping trip or camporee.

 

Perhaps the troop can find some Scouts and an AS or even the SM visit and assist with the Pinwood Derby or other activity.

 

Trash talk would like like sour grapes if people have a chance to see the Scoutmaster and troop in action, I would suppose.

 

 

[momof2cubs]

While the trash talking is WAY out of line and should probably be addressed, where a Web crosses over to is a very personal decision.

 

Ok so it's unusual in your town. Ok, so I can see the troop's SM being a little put off. However, not every troop will be a good fit for every boy. For whatever reason, she wants to go somewhere else. You can't force a scout to be in a particular troop! Think about it, the boy will be (in theory) part of that troop for 8 years! That's a bigger commitment than where to go to college!

 

I can understand your frustration and in some ways your embarrassment over this, but in some ways, it looks like the boys in your pack aren't really given a choice of where to cross over and that doesn't seem right.

[Thomas54]

 

 

You are being overly sensitive. If the SM is an oldie and a goodie then losing a few webelos to the next troop is not going to rock his world. And if this family is disruptive by nature, looks to be a social climber then all they better that they go to the other troop.

 

Visit the the two troops. Or invite both SM's to visit your dens.

 

 

[Lisabob]

This may be unusual for you, but it is quite normal elsewhere. Boys (and their families) should choose the troop that fits THEM, not the troop that you think they should go to. I've been on both ends as a cub leader and a troop leader, and let me tell you, it is not uncommon for there to be 3-4-5 troops present at a Blue & Gold to receive the scouts who are joining them. At every single one of these that I've attended, all troop leaders play nice with each other and congratulate the boys - all of them - on moving on to boy scouts, regardless of which troop. End of story.

 

 

[SMT224]

jamist649 - I can understand how you feel on this.

 

I'm a SM of a Troop that gets an annual crossover class from the Pack in our church. Rarely do Cubs cross to another Troop. Not all the Cubs join, some drop out or decide they don't want to be Scouts, but most join our Troop. We have a late April crossover ceremony that is become very institutionalized in both the Pack and Troop. The Troop has at least 2 Den Chiefs at the Pack at all times. I visit with the Webelos II parents and Cubs throughout the spring talking to them about the Troop and summer camp. We have a joint Webelos / Troop camping trip in early April to introduce the Cubs & parents to the Troop.

 

Despite years of great relations, a while back one parent decided our Troop wasn't good enough for his son, and proceeded to enumerate in great detail all the problems he saw in the Troop. I discussed his issues with him and the other parents, but he was steadfast that he could find a better Troop. Nevertheless, we convinced him to let his son crossover with all his friends and "try" the Troop.

 

Big mistake. We should have just let him go. He found fault in everything and really wanted it to be an Adult run Webelos III. He couldn't believe we let the boys make so many decisions and make all kinds of mistakes. They left after a couple months and we were all happy to see them go. Last I heard, they still hadn't found the Troop they wanted, as all the other Troops had "big problems" as well.

 

As others here have posted, let the Cub parents know how much the Troop does for the Pack, and invite the Troop Leaders to events to describe what they do and how much fun they have. Have positive responses to all the negatives the problem parent brings up. I'd let her without burning any bridges... wish them the best of luck. They may discover the grass really isn't greener on the other side, and want to come back.

 

[jamist649]

Scoutnut: Ok, nowhere in my post did I say I had treated that family any differently than any of the other boys. For the record, I have not. So there is nothing for me to "think about"..she is leaving our town because the Troop here is old-school and BOY run, as opposed to (as someone put it) a Webelos III. She also thinks that having her son in the next town over (even though they live over here) will somehow make her likable with the country club set.

 

I have remained silent on her decision and openly told all of the WIIs that they are welcome to go where they please....even though it KILLS me to do so.

 

The WII den leader has done all of the things mentioned here earlier. However, he-himself-is at a quandry as to what to do with his own son. He wants the group (most of which has been together since Tiger) to stay together but he's not keen on driving the 30 minutes to the neighboring Troop for meetings either. They visited with 3 Troops, camped, and we have invited the local Troop to visit on numerous occasions. We also have 2 older brothers in the local Troop who have little brothers in Cubs who are at EVERY Den meeting talking about what they do in the Troop. I don't know what else I can do to try to acclimate these guys to the Troop...ALL troops. Even though it's almost nauseating to me. The leaders of the other Troops have avoided us like the plague, refused to return calls from me, and will only speak to my WII DL when meeting. That's the kind of folks they are. Unless you are in 'the clique' they don't want anything to do with you, and the fact that I will have to stand up and perform a ceremony and smile and give my blessing while all of this occurs...well, let's just say I'd rather not. BUT, I will.

 

As to the trash talk, that's a TALL order with this woman. You just gotta know her. Her son is a good boy, her husband is great, she is a raging Young and Restless episode. Drama ALL...THE...TIME. Maybe, it's a good thing that she is taking her son with her...but I hate that she is trying to take our local boys with her out of town.

 

Ok, I'm being an @$$, point taken. I'll desist. But I won't like it.

 

:-/

[SR540Beaver]

A little perspective is always a good thing. There were 14 boys in my sons Webelos 1 Den. It dwindled down some in Webelos 2 because there were a few boys and families who wanted to pursue sports over scouting. Only about 7 ended up crossing over. Out of those 7, my son who turned 18 on Saturday and had his Eagle Court of Honor on Sunday was the only boy left standing out of his entire Den. All the rest of them dropped out at some point on the trail. Just because they have been together since Tigers really has little to do where they should go and where they will end up when they age out. Are there guys who go from Tiger to Eagle together. Sure, we have them in our troop. Then we have others like my son who chose to go to a troop 25 miles away when their was literally a troop about 4 blocks from our house. He's never regretted the path he took and I haven't either. I'd ask this parent to quit badmouthing the troop and wish them well on their decision to go elsewhere. Honestly, it sounds like she wants her son to go to the other troop for her own selfish reasons, but she doesn't want her son to go without having his buddies come along. Isn't that what you guys want to, all the buddies to stay together? You might be surprised what that group looks like in three years and realize the angst was much ado about nothing.

[Lisabob]

"Just because they have been together since Tigers really has little to do where they should go and where they will end up when they age out. "

 

Bingo. Boys (and girls of course) change so much in the middle school years. It is easy to say "oh they've been together since 1st grade so that means they should stay together." But most likely, they're going to start separating some anyway. Some will play sports, while others won't. Some will get into Band, Marching Band, Wind Ensemble, etc., while others won't. Some will become serious students taking a heavy academic courseload, while others won't. Some will go the Vo-Tech route, others won't. Some will end up in separate high schools depending on their families' estimations about their needs and wants. Some will drop out of scouting. Some will move.

 

Even within scouts, they'll choose their own paths more and more. Some will stay in scouting for a few years, "Eagle Out" at age 13-14. Others will stay til they're 18 and never get past 1st class. Some will dive into merit badges, others will hardly earn any of them. Some will love summer camp & go on to work staff while others won't go more than once or twice. Some will do Philmont, Boundary Waters, Sea Base, National Jambo, etc. Some will join OA. Others might just go camping every once in a while.

 

The temptation is there to think that as parents, we can continue to engineer our child's social experience as we did when they were little (play dates, after school programs, cub scouts, etc.). But that's not reality and they aren't going to let you anyway, so no point in trying to keep it that way as they get older.

 

Two closing thoughts:

1. Let each family go where they feel they fit best, whether that's the troop in town or not.

2. Wish this parent/boy well, and ask ALL of the families to support each others' choices, as opposed to undermining each others' choices. (A nice way to tell this lady to quit bad-mouthing the local troop) Then (by yourself) celebrate that Drama Mama is going to a different troop than you are!

 

 

 

 

 

[jamist649]

Lisa: Thank you so much for your candid yet tactful reply. I appreciate your honesty and prespective.

[shortridge]

"I have remained silent on her decision and openly told all of the WIIs that they are welcome to go where they please....even though it KILLS me to do so."

 

How would you feel if the situation was reversed? If you were the "renegade" parent and wanted your son to go to a certain troop, but the den and pack leadership were all pushing the kids to go to another troop?

 

Give it a rest, take a few steps back and look at it from another person's shoes.

[Eagle92]

Everything happens for a reason. It may be to the benefit of all that this family is goign elsewhere.

 

However I would tactfully remind the parent to not disparage the home troop. And I would tell all the parents to visit all the troops they and their sons want to visit.

 

I would also invite the SPLs and SMs to a meeting to talk up their units.

 

 

I would also get you DCs to talk up their unit. Yu may be surprised at what they can do.

 

I had an awesome DC, and I followed him into the troop, despite some reservations. I stayed 6 months, mostly b/c of him, before I realized that it wasn't the troop for me. Joined my cousins' troop instead.