New Cubmaster

[scoutmom0618]

Hi. I am new to the forum and need advice. This is the first year I have ever been involved in Scouting. However, I usually love to jump into things. I volunteered to be the Tiger Den Leader and completed every bit of the online training for Cub Scouts and boy Scouts, including all the committe positions, cubmaster, wolf, bear, leader, Outdoor, etcc...All of them (except Venturing) I also found out about University of scouting on my own and registered out of pocket for this. I have read this forum for ideas, etc...The only thing I do not do is attend roundtable regularly. Oh yeah, I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and missed one meeting this year because I could not maneuver the stairs to get to our scout hall. The reason is it is on Wed night and hard for me to make because I like to be active at church. Anyway, when I joined the CM and ACM's (there were 2)made it known that they would be leaving the pack when their boys crossed to the troop this year. Not knowing much I waited and read what I could find and went to University and took classes such as recharter, Finances and Budget, and Building a Pack. Afterwards, realized I could be a CM, Our CC is really in name and so the CM does do a lot for our pack. However, I am good with that...I have the extra time and would love to give it a shot! My problem is when I met with the existing leadership, they told me that they really did not think I could do it because of health, my RA, because I would not be able to go on all the camping trips..So, I did more research and realized that I could be an effective XM or CC without going on every camping trip. After that, I sent a letter to the CM abd ACM saying I would like to be considered. Since then, things have been a little strange and some things have been said that make me want to be very defensive, However, I still think that I could do a great job and help grow our pack as well as retain the current members!! But when the committee met in Jan, due to the flu and being hospitalized, I could not attend. I do not KNOW for sure what was said but was told by a couple people that some negative things were said about me to the committee. They tabled things until this week and I plan to attend. I am supposed to say anything that I feel I need to. I know that the current leadership wants someone else to feel this role, but noone else in the pack wants to and they have all reiterated this several times to everyone. I do know that I do not want my reputation ruined because of this. I am willing to step up, learn what I need, and do a good job for the pack, however I am NOT playing politics!!

After reading and researching, I have come up with something I plan to pass out Tom. Night listing my vision, direction I would take the pack and specific goals.

 

Vision for the Pack.

I also want Pack 254 to embark on the Journey of Excellence and strive for a gold medal! My vision for Pack 254 is to be known for the highest standards in the district and set the bar for all others in recruiting, retaining, and preparing our leaders and our boys!

Goals:

I want to see Pack 254 grow to at least 75 boys in the coming year.

I would like to see our retention rate at 80% and achieve a gold standard of the Journey of Excellence.

I would like to see at least 50% of our boys attend day camp.

I want Pack 254 to participate and spearhead 4 service projects other than regularly scheduled scouting projects. At least one of these should be in conjuction with FUMC.

Identify Wolf, Bear, and Webelos leaders by May 31st.

Have all leaders trained

Complete a written budget and get input from chartered organization, parents, leaders, and scouts.

Have 100% involvement in fundraising activities such as scout show cards and popcorn.

Increase popcorn sales 150%.

When were we first chartered by FUMC?

 

"Make no small plans.

They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized." D. Burn

 

While some of these may take a little while, they are attainable! Right now we have 45-60 boys depending on time of year.

Does anyone have ANY advice on how to address the negativity withoutbeing negative? And health issues? are they valid? I mean, I don't know what will happen tomorrow but I can perform day to day tasks and stuff..now I don't do rock climbing, etc..but I can watch..lol I am very good with administration and think I could do good with Pack meetings...

 

I realize that if a decision is not made soon, our pack could suffer and how can I make them realize that waiting for someone who does not want to commit could be detrimental to our pack?

Anyway, thanks for listening as I am so nervous about tomorrow night!!!

[Nike]

Well, I have only two things to say.

 

1) The Cubmaster really does have to go to roundtable. That's where a lot of the relationship building between CMs, SMs, district people, etc happen and it's where you can really find your peers. There are politics in Scouting, as you have already noticed.

 

2) As a committee member, I would be concerned about your health this past year. I don't know a lot about RA. I do know that in my military community, our CM, CC, and ACM were all active duty last year. If the CM is deployed, away on military business trips, or involved in a field exercise, the ASM has to step in. If he's also gone, the CC runs the pack meeting. So you really need a backup you work with well.

 

How are your relationships with the other den leaders and committee members? Your enthusiam may be a little overwhelming, and they also may not agree with your vision of the pack. You may be the only person who feels like she has the extra time to put in.

 

You know what you want to do. Now, what does the Pack need?

[jamist649]

First, the good stuff. You are to be commended for your enthusiasm and positive "get it done" attitude. I wish I had a few like you in my own Pack.

 

Ok, now for the not-so-fun stuff: The Cubmaster position is "transient" in nature..for a reason. It is VERY labor intensive. I have done more manual labor since taking over my Pack as CM 18 months ago than I have done in my entire life. You, as CM, are called upon and looked to to get the WORK done when nobody else can/will. I have lifted tables at fundraisers, crawled around on the floor for hours getting the PWD track set up, assisted new families with tents, instructed campfire building, hauled popcorn boxes, and on and on... I have met many, many CMs since my appointment and I have yet to meet on that isn't quite young and in pretty good shape. It's VERY labor intensive. And, once you get in, you will learn very quickly that it will be YOU making it happen. I know that some Packs are different, HOWEVER you-yourself-said that no one in your Pack wants to step up...That leads me to feel that if you get your wish of leading this Pack you will find yourself setting up events/meetings alone. With your health, is that feasible?

 

Here's what I suggest. I'd leave your "vision" printouts at home. I'd go in and casually (from the cuff) tell them how your feel. I would say something to the effect of: "Hey, I love this Pack. I've done XXX for this Pack and taken XXX training on my own. I love this Pack and these boys too much to see us settle for status quo. If that's offensive to anyone, I'm sorry. I will yeild to whatever the committee, parents, and mostly SCOUTS would like to do." Or something like that... That leaves it in thier hands.

 

I, personally, think you'd make an outstanding ASSISTANT Cubmaster. You could do the administrative work (which I loathe) and the CM could do the more physical laborious activity.

 

Best of luck to you...whatever happens.

 

 

[scoutmom0618]

Nike,

Thanks for your response. As for the first concern, as you mentioned there are active duty military and a whole lot of other people who have issues so that is why there is back up in place:) I think that is why one of the reasons that 'health' issues reason bothers me. I wish I could figure out a nice way to say that 'health issues' should be considered on the same level as every other thing such as militarty, family obligations, etc. Also, the concern is that I will not be active in camping..Personally, if my son is not going, I really do not think that I should either? (I am a woman)

The second issue of relationships...I am not aware of any issues and get along well with everyone in my den and those that I have been around outside of den. If they have issues with me, then I am not aware.

From what I understand, our pack was larger at one time and the current leadership decided to stop recruiting from all 4 schools and only do 1. So as far as over enthusiasm, I guess it is possible but honestly, if something is worth doing, it is worth doing right..I think. and the Cub Scout Motto is : Do Your Best...lol

As for vision, I am willing to change somewhat but I still think that we should aim for the best.

As far as what the Pack needs, they need leadership. They need someone coming up that is willing to take the lead. Our current team, took over in a crisis and have done wonders with the pack. It became financially solvent under them when it was completely broke before and could not even provide awards. Our pack needs someone willing to learn and at this time I think it would benefit them to have someone who is newer to the pack become CM because right now everything is dumped on the current CM and bless her heart, she does it and with a newer person,the pack would be starting essentially over as far as leadership.

 

I did not start out wanting to do this but feel like if someone is put in name only, then the pack will suffer. In every situation that I have ever been a part of, the leader's enthusiasm builds the followers enthusiasm. So, I really do not think that it an issue. It is more that there is 'someone else', but that person does NOT want to become CM. My son, has 4 more years here and I want to make them positive. I do not want to settle for less than the best! I also want to teach him to stand up and be willing to do what is needed whereever he may be:)

 

As for RT, yes it would be awesome to attend every month but it meets on Wed night and that directly contradicts with church. In fact the Cub Scout promise states that "..to do my duty to God and my country.." So, if in fact I did skip church to do RT all the time would I be fulfilling the Cub Scout Promise? I am really not being sarcastic but serious? I am willing to come a little later to RT and catch the 2nd half because I would be able to get there after church. I am also fine with activities other than Wed night such as meetings, etc..and would be willing to go to a different district RT in our council...

 

Anyway, thanks for listening and offering advice because I am definitly going to use your question, what does the pack need tommorrow, if that is ok:)

[scoutmom0618]

Jaimist,

Thank you for your response. I realize that I would be the one making it happen, and I can do that. Most tasks are fine, however, one thing about our pack is that while no one wants the responsibility of being cubmaster, everyone pitches in if given specific tasks such as tables, etc..The reason that I am very specific about my vision is that I was told that I would be asked to present that at the meeting tomorrow.

I loved your comment about 'settling for status quo"!

[moosetracker]

Sometimes a unit will try to campaign for someone they choose for a position.. I know our troop would for SM, to the point of doing silly things like putting signs up outside the persons house sort of like a political campagne.. "so & so for Scoutmaster".. Most units take a willing warm body, but it is not suppose to be the best way to do things.

 

CM & SM are more people you want the right person in the position. Right now we have someone as SM who wants to do the position, but is just not the right personality.. Can not delegate well, and since they don't care to camp, they sort of sabbatoge the planned events so they get canceled.. The troop also gets lots of complaints, maybe he did do it wrong, and maybe it is just perceived wrong due to people already having poor opinion of him.. So, this position may be more important to make sure you don't just put someone in a willing, but someone in that will follow their leadership..

 

The Committee Chair's position, is also a need to be willing to follow. But a quite more reserved, less engaging personality is fine for the job.. A big thing is to be able to delegate, and get others to be willing to take on the work load, while the CC just works to make sure the positions are filled and those in the position have the support they need to do the job correctly..

 

Some of your plans are big, and could be scary.. You may think they are attainable, but some of the plans would need to be carried out by the chosen CM, and they (especially if new) may be happy to keep the pack going while they get to know their job.. So you could scare people...

 

How is the Committee membership right now, is it large with people who have time to take up extra causes, or are you in need of getting people to fill those positions.. If you have empty positions, the first task is to fill them, then over time you can slowly add on a suggestion or two.. But, if it is the CM court (things like Journey to Excellence, and recruitment) those things should be left to him..

 

They will not want a Committee Chair who looks like they might try to do oversee or force the CM to follow their plans rather then allow them to run their own program while they as CC and thier committee members are eager to support his plans for the future, be that his plans are low key enthusiatic as yours are..

 

That does not mean that from time to time the Committee Chair (or others on the committee) can not offer him some suggestions or insight into an award that he doesn't know about, or a recruitment idea that may bring in more cubs.. But then it is up to the CM to concider and decide to act on the suggestion or not..

 

It is great to dream, and dream big, and see wonderous things.. But, I think if you want a shot, it is better to go in with a few simple suggestions for improvement, and not scare everyone that your idea will be more then they have the time or energy to implement.. If you get the position, then start slow, make sure you don't cross the line of what is your territory and what is the CM's territory, and slowly over years you may get some of your dreams to slowly come true without laying it all out on the table.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Scoutmom,

 

First I applaude your interest and enthusism for Cub Scouts! I was a 59 year Old Tiger Cub Den Leader for dens in two different packs a couple of years ago, and am now a 61 year old Cubmaster in a struggling pack.

 

I also applaude your obtaining a range of the training available, something I did as well. Indeed I took both the council Cubmaster specific training and our district Cubmaster specific training as well, which went pretty much by the official syllabus.

 

To be candid, with the goals you have stated, you would probably be better as the Pack Committee Chair than as Cubmaster, is my assessment. If you were pack committee chair you would be able to concentrate on finding the resources to set the goals and find the resources and do the planning to carry them out.

 

Planning an effective recruiting campaign is mainly the job of the pack committee and committee chair, or is supposed to be, for example.

 

If you found yourself a good Cubmaster, you could let that person do their job and you could have more time and authority to work your program.

 

You have an ambitious Vision, but is it shared by other leaders in the committee and pack? If not, it may just frighten them as goals that seem to be too ambitious. Politics is involved in Cub Scouts, too!

 

 

And how has your Tiger Cub Den program gone? Do you have two or three Tiger Cub dens with Den Leaders and Assistant Den Leaders, with numerous boys completing their Tiger Cub badge Achievements this month? If so, I'd say that right in line with the kind of thing that would lead you to be able to achieve your vision statement.

 

My Tiger Cub Den Leader organized a nice service project last weekend for our church sponsor, which included a hot dog roast to cap the activity. It was well attended. Have you helped the pack organize a project like that?

 

Good luck on you Cub Scout career, whichever way it may go!

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Oh---

 

With respect to Roundtable.

 

If you have a good program, encourage people to go. It doesn't have to be you since you have another obligation.

 

You can have one parent detailed to attend Roundtable and then debrief them, or have a different person attend each month.

 

Roundtable is a way to stay connected to what is going on at the district level.

[moosetracker]

Sorry, My response was more on your statemnent

 

 

So, I did more research and realized that I could be an effective XM or CC without going on every camping trip.

 

 

Don't know what XM is, but I took what your wrote as "vision" as looking to fill the CC roll, not CubMaster.. But, seems like you are still thinking to campaign for CM still..

 

Anyway, thinking not to go on events if your son does not attend would be a detriment to a CM or even an ACM.. You have to consider that you are there for "ALL" boys, not just your own..

 

In the troop, we have several Asst SM, who think this way, and it ends up that they still rely on my husband who is not SM or ASM, but a committee member to be relied to go on every event with the SM or maybe if they can get 1 ASM and my husband.. But my son is 20 and doesn't go on any outings, but my husband was in it for all the boys.. The SM & ASM must be in it for all the boys.. The pack will depend on it. You might have other committements from time to time, but you should be available about 90% of the time, regardless of it your son is only thier 75 or 80% of the time..

[ScouterAdam]

Hello:

 

Great energy here. I was the Tiger Den Leader and went into being the Cubmaster. I am almost at the end of my 2nd year.

A couple of questions:

What is your role going to be next year if you are not Cubmaster?

Since you are trained in all the online courses, have you thought of going to Woodbadge?

Woodbadge would really help you and your vision for the Pack.

 

Camping: You really do not have to go camping. Get a Camping Chair and they can go. Just make sure that those who are camping are BALOO/OWLS trained. Unless the WHOLE Pack goes camping the only ones that really can camp are the Webelos.

 

Roundtable: You should go. You meet and network with a lot of people that can be used as a resource.

 

Unit Committee/Committee Chair: If your not a Den Leader this coming year, this would be a great position. The CC is a very powerful position and does a lot of behind the curtain work.

 

Back to Woodbadge:

I went to Woodbadge in 2009 and now on staff for Spring 2011.

Looking at your goals, some are attainable and others are farther out and others not realistic.

 

You said:"I also want Pack 254 to embark on the Journey of Excellence and strive for a gold medal! My vision for Pack 254 is to be known for the highest standards in the district and set the bar for all others in recruiting, retaining, and preparing our leaders and our boys! "

 

Looking at our Pack's stats for the past two years and we attained Quality Unit Award 2009/2010 I already know that we got Gold for 2011 in what we do. I highly suspect that the BSA will change the Journey Awards in 2012 so Gold will be harder.

 

Do you really want to be GOLD? To get Gold your Committee/Den Leaders have to be on board and share the vision.

 

 

Goals:

I want to see Pack 254 grow to at least 75 boys in the coming year.

 

Great: I would shoot for 10% each year. If you have a strong Tigers Group that will keep you going. Remember, you need Volunteers to be Den Leaders. Those are harder to get!

 

 

I would like to see our retention rate at 80% and achieve a gold standard of the Journey of Excellence.

 

If you have a program that gets them in the door and is FUN. They will stay. If it's not fun they will walk! KEEP IT FUN!

 

I would like to see at least 50% of our boys attend day camp.

Always good idea. See why they are not going. Do you have less than 50% now?

 

I want Pack 254 to participate and spearhead 4 service projects other than regularly scheduled scouting projects. At least one of these should be in conjuction with FUMC.

 

If FUMC is the Charter Org, then yes. The Unit should give back. However, what are the other regularly scheduled scouting projects? Scouting for Food, Goodwill Good Turn? The Unit needs to do BSA projects as well. Do not swap one for another or ad more on to them. If you add on or take away fun ones, then the boys/parents will walk.

 

 

 

Identify Wolf, Bear, and Webelos leaders by May 31st.

Do you NOT have these leaders already in place? I would work on Tigers Den Leaders. They are harder to get.

 

Have all leaders trained:

It is a requirement to have all those Adult Scouters Youth Protection Trained. If not, you do not charter.

That said, what do you mean by Trained? BALOO, OWLS, ITOLS, First Aid, CPR, ETC...

 

Complete a written budget and get input from chartered organization, parents, leaders, and scouts.

 

Hold a parents meeting and see what they want. Then figure out the budget of what is inportant. Pinewood Derby, Blue & Gold, Crossover...etc.

 

Have 100% involvement in fundraising activities such as scout show cards and popcorn.

Increase popcorn sales 150%.

 

These last two are hard sells. Some boys do not like to sell. We have 38 boys in our Unit and only 17 sold popcorn. However, they did increase the sales this year. What's the goal with the fundraising? Send everyone to camp? Pinewood Derby, Family Camp, Blue & Gold?

 

 

 

You are a very well meaning person. But, I think your coming on too strong for the current leadership. Hence, they are a tad nervous. I would go to Woodbadge. Go to Roundtables. Go to other Council/District trainings. Get on the committee and watch and listen. I suspect that going through this process you can get some of your goals working.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Yours in Scouting.

 

PS: You will notice that I did not say anything about your health.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Congrats ( maybe ) and welcome to the club.

 

I know "XM" is supposed to be Cm , but the "X" key is beside the "C" key. I'd be lying if I told you I didn't hit the wrong keys at least 8 times per post!

 

 

I became CM last June . My original intentions were to be a Webelos DL, but apparently, my enthusiasm, and general ability to get along with everybody and planning made others think differently.

 

 

Now, you didn't ask, but I want to give you the most basic and over-simplified definition of what a CM and CC does.

 

Duties of a CubMaster: Lead pack meetings and get the boys riled up and make sure they have fun.

 

Duties of a CC: All thr boring admin and buisness stuff needed to run a pack.

 

Like I said...oversimplified, and very basic.

 

As a CM, you also over see the program that the DL's deliver to the boys, and after that, you help the CC and committee find, and recruit new leadership as needed.

 

The CC does all the buisness stuff and handles the various committee members who handle awards, recharter, fundraising, paperwork, etc...

 

 

I mean this as a c ompliment, but you sound more like a CC than a CM.

 

Trust me, it's probably more important to have a skiled CC than a CM. Almost anybody could be a CM if they learn to not take themselves so seriously and will joke and be a kid themselves in front of and around the boys.

 

Anybody CANNOT be a CC. That takes quite a bit of skils, asertiveness, b uisness sense and the ability to delegate responcibilities and take charge and keep people on track when needed.

 

 

OH, while very favorable, the CM dos not have to go camping...although, they should want to whenever the oppertunity arrises.

[drmbear]

One of the things I've seen about being a good Cubmaster is to BE very much like the 8 or 9 year olds in your pack. Being a great Cubmaster involves being a little crazy, being a little nutty, you are up there in front and rocking the show. I found that the boys respond best and accept the real fun of Cub Scouts a lot more when they are seeing me, an adult, acting in ways they just never see adults act. I'm glad I am not in bad shape, but even I realize I really need to work on getting in even better shape if I'm going to keep doing this for another two years. There are so many important things necessary to keep a pack running effectively, and overall not enough people actually step up to act. Whatever you have to give will make a difference for your kid's experience. Find the place that makes the most sense to you, giving what you are completely willing and ABLE to give, and it will be appreciated.

 

 

Craig - Cubmaster

[scoutmom0618]

Wow, thank you all for the response! Some of it made me laugh, some- shake my head, and some of it made me feel encouraged. I guess I did not expect a lot of negative responses since there are so many people complaining about the lack of volunteers. I have been reading these boards for months and should have expected the response I got! lol

First, sorry for the typo of xm, yes I did mean CM.

Second, we do not have a functioning committee. Our CM and her two ACM's have basically done everything for a couple years. Ideally, I would love to be CC, but know that I will have to become CM to begin the transition.

The DLs and pack, I have been told are willing to make changes. In fact, they expect change with a new leadership.

As far as most of the things like growing to 75, on our recharter we had like 64 so it is not a giant leap for us.

Retention is pretty well and we would probably be gold now if I sat down and ran the actual numbers.as far as the camping, the person who stated if it was pack wide then I would need to go, otherwise not...echos my feeling. I am a woman and while this may sound old fashioned, I would feel really strange going camping with men and boys that were not my family?

I realize that I have to be available tp everyone whether my kid is involved or not, I plan to.

The service projects are in addition and can be fun, after all I want to the boys to understand that service IS fun!

As far as health, thanks to those who did not use it as a reason...lol At first, I actually thought it would hinder me, until I went to University of Scouting and saw all the people with canes and the majority were not very physically fit..lol In fact, out of all the instructors, I think one might have been 'physically fit'.

As far as membership, currently the CM does this so I would do it for a while until we could get the committee working properly.

The current CM and her 2 ACMS also do the pack finances..

 

Again, I reiterate that I do not think anyone has a problem with me, they wanted someone else that could not. I also wonder if one of the reasons that organizations, packs, churches, schools, etc.. do not have enough volunteers is because ultimately even while saying they do, they do not want someone to step up and volunteer.

I volunteered several months ago and even after the meeting in Jan, where I was told to shadow the current CM, at the Blue and Gold, there was an announcement made to the general pack that someone needed to step up and fill the role of CM because no one had.

Anyway, I am going to stay positive. I know I can help and plan to be honest tomorrow and go from there. I do know that if there is not a good decision made, we will tranfer to another pack. It is not good for a pack to be in limbo and I will not allow my son to suffer because of adults playing games.

Sorry for any typos!

 

Again, thank you ALL for replying, even though some of the responses were not what I wanted to hear, they helped me clarify my thoughts so they were very helpful!

[ScoutNut]

45-60 Scouts and the Pack can not get any parents to step up to volunteer as leaders? That is not good.

 

With a retention rate under 80%, your Pack is having problems keeping Scouts in it's program. Do you know why is it losing boys/families? Why do you want a Pack bigger than 60 boys? Is it to give you a better buffer for when you loose Scouts?

 

What does your being a woman have to do with camping with the Pack, with, or without your son being present?

 

How often does the Pack camp?

 

What happens to your current den next year if you become Cubmaster(CM), or Committee Chair(CC)? With parents not willing to take on leadership positions, and a CC in name only, are you going to be forced to do the jobs of CC, CM, Den Leader, and various Committee Member positions, all at the same time? If so, I would recommend you stay with, and concentrate on your den and making sure those boys get the best program you can give them, and leave the rest of the jobs to someone else.

 

 

[scoutmom0618]

ScoutNut,

What happens to your current den next year if you become Cubmaster(CM), or Committee Chair(CC)? With parents not willing to take on leadership positions, and a CC in name only, are you going to be forced to do the jobs of CC, CM, Den Leader, and various Committee Member positions, all at the same time? If so, I would recommend you stay with, and concentrate on your den and making sure those boys get the best program you can give them, and leave the rest of the jobs to someone else.

When I became serious about this, I did recruit a family from my den to take over my Tiger Den and they are officially in charge now. To be fair, they had been approached by someone else but did not commit until after I became serious about becoming CM. As far as next year, if I became Cm would like to try a different perspective on the Tiger Den, with me or ACM leading a new scout orientation and trying the shared leadership plan suggested by BSA!

ON a side note, interesting that you say focus on my den and leave the rest to someone else...That seems to be the problem.. No wonder there is such a lack of volunteers in the scouting program! When someone wants to, they are told don't bother.

 

45-60 Scouts and the Pack can not get any parents to step up to volunteer as leaders? That is not good.

We have a lot of parents that help but none that are willing to be CM or make a full time committment. We have leaders for our current dens but will need new ones for the coming year for Tigers and possibly one other den.

 

With a retention rate under 80%, your Pack is having problems keeping Scouts in it's program.

Do you know why is it losing boys/families?

I do have some idea and it is something I think I can help with.

 

Why do you want a Pack bigger than 60 boys?

My first response is "Why NOt?"

 

Is it to give you a better buffer for when you loose Scouts?

NO!!! It is because I feel that there are boys that could benefit from the scouting program that do not have the opportunity as well as more boys, more dens equal more opportunities for friendships among boys, service opportunities, more parent volunteers, more opportunity to make a difference in the world, one MORE boy at a time!

 

What does your being a woman have to do with camping with the Pack, with, or without your son being present?

Well, from my perspective would not want my hubby camping with a group of girl scouts with my daughter or me...Just saying..

 

How often does the Pack camp?

They do a couple pack trip a year and the Webelos camp more often.