Some Rank Thoughts...

[bokris]

When is a Bear a Bear? Would it be when the child enters 3rd grade? I dont think so. As I have been working towards the Blue/Gold ceremony, Ive been thinking these thoughts. My 3rd grade Bear badge candidates are qualified to receive their Bear badge, and at the ceremony, I will be having my den leader presenting them as candidates eligible for the Bear rank. Prior to this crossover from candidate to Bear, they have been technically Wolves in Bear training throughout their 3rd grade year. They will be Bears at the end of the crossover, but not be WEBLO I candidates in training until the end of this school year and through their 4th grade year until they have become eligible for admission into the WEBLOS I rank. They may be in the WEBLOS den throughout their 4th grade year in preparation for WEBLOS I rank, but, alas, they are not WEBLOS I until they have earned this title.

 

I have been misnaming the ranks throughout my scouter career, and these thought have just come to mind. The boys are not the rank in which their den is until they have earned the rank through the steps required. Does this mean that the boys shouldnt wear their rank neckerchief until they have earned their rank. If so, should they be wearing their previous years neckerchief until they have earned the title in which they have been working? If this is the case, should Tiger cub candidates not be wearing their Tiger neckerchief until they have earned the Tiger, and wear it over the course of the year until they have worked through the steps to earn their Wolf? At which time, throughout their 3rd grade year, should they not continue to wear the Wolf neckerchief until they attain their requirements for candidacy into the Bear rank?

 

With all of this, is the new boy who enters in the 3rd grade not only a Bobcat (once they have earned this status) until they complete their Bear rank requirements? And then, how does age play into all of this? Ive discovered this morning that I must sort this all out within my head before I can logically explain to my den leaders, parents and the kids.

 

I hope I havent shaken leaders thought processes everywhere with these questions! Or maybe, I hope I have...

(This message has been edited by bokris)

[AKdenldr]

Yep, thats one way to think about it, however you might have some third graders still wearing that tiger scarf if they didn't earn their wolf in 2nd grade. Plus, what about the new 3rd grade boy who just joined? No scarf for 9 months?

 

Another way to wrap your mind around it is that this is the den working on that rank. So the 3rd grade den are "Bears" because they are working together on the Bear rank (or 'doing Bear things'). I see the rank awards as awards for fully participating in that year's program. Once they have earned it they are still Bears for a few short months to bask in their accomplishment (and a bit of time for stragglers.).

 

A little awkward, but it works.

[bokris]

The question is, though, are they "doing Bear things", or are they working on tasks specific for the accomplishment of the rank requirements? How does one justify the honor of wearing the emblem of a rank in which they haven't yet achieved?

 

The rank award is very much an award for having participated in the past year's tasks, and even if they don't earn it, they move up based on grade/age anyway. This goes in alignment with "Do your Best", however what about those that didn't "do their best, and cruised through the year, but get to have the same joy of advancement as those who did "do their best". If the rank hasn't been completed over the course of the year, should it be awarded anyway, as they have changed grades, or is the patch left off of the uniform for the year in which they didn't accomplish the tasks? Some more to chew on...

 

(I know it shouldn't be that deep, but I'm struggling through this process within myself at this time)

[ScoutNut]

This is Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. Different programs, different ways of doing things entirely.

 

There are two separate things involved here.

 

1) The Cub Scout level the boy is in.

 

2) The age appropriate award for that level, named after the level.

 

Boy Scouts are defined by the award they have earned. Rank = award.

 

Cub Scouts are defined by the level they are in, not by the award for that level. Rank = Level. Award is just an award.

 

Thus, when a boy has graduated from kindergarten, and his BSA application has been processed on June 1st, he is then and there officially a Tiger Cub Scout. During his year as a Tiger Cub Scout he will be working toward earning the awards he is eligible to earn at the level of Tiger. These include his Bobcat award, and his Tiger award, among others.

 

On the following June 1st, when he has graduated from 1st grade, he will officially become a Wolf Cub Scout. It does not matter if he has earned no awards at all during his year as a Tiger Cub Scout, he will still enter the next level of Cub Scouting as he is no longer a 1st grader. During his year as a Wolf Cub Scout he will be eligible to work toward a number of awards age-appropriate for the Wolf Cub Scout level, among them, the Wolf award.

 

For any award, at any level, if the requirements have not been met to earn the award, it has not been earned, and should not be given to the Scout - period.

 

If the requirement to earn an award is to visit the zoo with your Pack, and that requirement has been met, then the zoo participation award is presented to the Scout. If he did not meet the requirement, by not going on the Pack zoo visit, he does not get the award.

 

If the requirement to earn an award is to complete 15 requirements, and the Scout completes all 15, then the award (in this case the Tiger award) is presented to the Scout. If only 13, or 14, of the 15 requirements are completed, then the Scout has not earned, and should not receive, that award.(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

[bokris]

I appreciate your helping with this clarification, Scoutnut. Prior to this morning, I had not really begun to analyze the concepts,and an email I received from a den leader prompted this thought process. With your thoughts, I believe the Blue/Gold event we are holding will be awarding those who have earned their rank specific award, and those who have not will, of course be awarded (if earned0 at the end of this school year. If they have not earned it, then it will not be awarded, however an "end of school year" celebration may include a "crossover" into the next phase of their Cub Scout career, whether the award be given or not (ie. the Bears will "crossover into the WEBLOS I). One of my goals this year is the creation of more ceremony within our pack, and I needed the clarification and resolve within myself prior to any type of ceremony being held. Thanks for the help in this area...

[dkurtenbach]

Good explanation from ScoutNut. Let me see if I can phrase it another way that might be helpful.

 

Tiger, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos are first and foremost the names of the grade-level programs (or sub-programs of Cub Scouting) that the boys participate in. Boys are called by the name of the grade level programs they are members of. Thus boys in or entering 1st grade are Tigers; boys who have completed 2nd grade or are in 3rd grade are Bears; boys who have completed 3rd grade or are in 4th and 5th grade, but have not yet left the pack, are Webelos Scouts. For each grade level program they carry the books for those programs and wear the uniforms of those programs -- Tiger neckerchiefs and hats, Wolf neckerchiefs and hats, Bear neckerchiefs and hats, Webelos neckerchiefs and hats with the option for the tan/green uniform. During each program year, the activities the Scouts participate in are largely centered on completing the requirements for the rank badge for that particular program, which usually bears [pun intended] the name of the grade-level program in which it is earned (the exceptions being Bobcat and Arrow of Light).

 

Thus a Scout is a Bear because he is a member of and participates in the Bear Program. He is a Bear while in 3rd grade, even if he never completes a single requirement for the Bear badge. But he only holds Bear _rank_ when he has earned the Bear badge.

 

Dan K.

[nolesrule]

"With your thoughts, I believe the Blue/Gold event we are holding will be awarding those who have earned their rank specific award, and those who have not will, of course be awarded (if earned0 at the end of this school year."

 

A boy who earns the award should receive it at the very next pack meeting. Do not wait till the end of the school year. You do the scout a disservice.

[bokris]

Thanks, Dan...

 

Also, Thank you, Nolesrule. You make a great point as well. I should have actually thought about that last year, as my son didn't make his Wolf by Blue/Gold, and the Cubmaster at the time had him wait until the end of the school year. It hurt and embarrassed him, and I didn't feel good about the decision when it was all said and done. I'm Cubmaster now, and want to improve the program in areas which I can improve, and didn't think about the immediacy of the award. I'm glad this has been processed through, so that I can make the changes in the practice prior to the delay of the "advancement award" as opposed to it being an afterthought...

 

Thanks again!

[nolesrule]

What's the point of having monthly pack meetings if you don't give out the awards as they are earned.

 

Blue and Gold is supposed to be the pack's birthday party for scouting. When you hold back lots of awards and achievements just to give out at the B&G, you make the whole thing unnecessarily long with ceremony, which can end up boring the scouts (and their families) to tears, unless it is a smallish pack.

[Scoutfish]

One of our military DL's had this same conversation with a parent once. He used a great analogy:

 

A scout in a rank is that scout..he just hasn't gotten his rank diploma yet.

 

In this case, the scout in a Bear Den is indeed a Bear, and he is working towards his Bear diploma. He's a bear, just not a graduated Bear.

 

Yeah, the mom was a teacher so it worked for her!

[shortridge]

but not be WEBLO I candidates in training until the end of this school year and through their 4th grade year until they have become eligible for admission into the WEBLOS I rank. They may be in the WEBLOS den throughout their 4th grade year in preparation for WEBLOS I rank, but, alas, they are not WEBLOS I until they have earned this title.

 

Don't mean to nitpic, but I had to read this a few times. I think your understanding of some basic principles and terminology may be a bit off.

 

First: There's no such thing as "candidates in training" or "candidates."

 

Second: There is no such thing as Webelos I rank. There is, in fact, no such thing as Webelos I or Webelos II. Those are unofficial terms used to describe first- and second-year Webelos dens in packs that have enough Cubs to make separate dens.

 

Third: The term is Webelos, not Weblo or Weblos.

[SSScout]

A bit of history , bokris:

Once upon a time, a Cub Scout was a Cub Scout. After he joined, he earned the Bobcat pin. Every Cub did this, regardless of the age they joined. Then they were a "real" Cub Scout, wore the blue uniform, the yellow neckerchief (ONLY the yellow) and did Cub Scout stuff. The Den they were in was USUALLY age/school grade specific. The boy was a Cub with his buddies. I say USUALLY, because, if your Pack was small, you might be in a neighborhood Den, with other boys of differing age. Had been done that way, sometimes.

Depending on his age, he would work, with his Den Leader (Den Mother!) and family on the Rank/Badge appropriate: Wolf, Bear, Lion or Webelos. Cub did not need to work on a "younger" rank, tho some were allowed to and did. Nice to have all four badges.

The idea of a Den being a "Wolf" Den, or whatever, is a more modern idea. We were in "DenOne, Having Fun", and Den One (or two, or three , or four,) was the Den, not the rank. The rank was what you EARNED and was really independant of the Den appelation. As the Cub earned his rank, (some sooner than others) he received it at the next Pack meeting, with appropriate (at least we thought so)cheers and applause, the cornier the better. I remember discovering the idea of earning something by what I accomplished.

Blue and Gold banquet was a special affair. I remember having one at a really nice sit down restaurant. The Dens made decorations for the tables and room. Best behavior! Grandparents in attendance! Some special awards, some special entertainment. If he did not earn the rank by the end of the year, the Cub could earn it later, even next year, and be awarded it as appropriate. Or, he could commence on the next years badge, as he and his parents decided. I had one friend of mine that had moving trouble, multiple houses in one year, and didn't earn his Bear until the next year, along with his Lion shortly after.

Each Den could be, as I said, either age/grade dependant or not. The Cub did his crafty stuff and museum visits and such with his Den. The Pack was for greater recognition and bigger fun.

We had a Cub softball league, our Pack fielded a team that played other Packs thru the spring and into the summer months, coached by the Pack dads. I still have several ash softball bats of that vintage (collectors, anyone?) . Yes, we met thru the summer. If someone was on vacation, well, we all heard about it when they got back.

The idea of naming the "Wolf" Den, "Bear" Den and (now) Webelos 1 and 2 Dens, and making the ranks more dependant on the end of the year (if you don't earn it by June, you've lost the chance, start on the next years rank) is more modern. The emphasis, to my memory, was on the Cub Scout activity, and the rank came along automatically, it was not 'earn the rank' as a goal in and of itself. Do you see the difference here?

Den 4 may be the "Wolf" Den, but the Wolf rank should be awarded as they earn it, not all at the B&G or at years end...

 

Too much reminincing? (not enough?)(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[drmbear]

A boy that completes third grade is eligible to go to Webelos camp that summer - so he is a Webelos, right? At the end of the school year, our pack always does a bridging into their new rank, placing on their new neckerchiefs, and officially moving them into their new level.

[ScoutNut]

Webelos is an 12-18 month program that includes boys in the 4th, and 5th grades. The names of Webelos 1(I), and Webelos 2(II), are "unofficial", and used as a more convenient way of differentiating between the 4th, and 5th grade Webelos dens. Of course, if your Webelos pick den names/emblems (Frightful Frogs, Cute Cobras), then you don't have to worry about any other names.

 

We "crossover" Webelos into the brand new program of Boy Scouts.

 

At our last Pack meeting of the school year, at the end of May, we hold a "graduation" ceremony and move everyone to their next Cub Scout level. We give them their new scarves, slides, and Handbooks. The Webelos going into 5th grade are not graduating, but they are moving into the last part of their trail to Boy Scouts. They get vittle kits, and slides with the Arrow of Light on them.

[clemlaw]

To avoid confusion, it's best to be careful about the language you use.

 

Cub Scouts "are" Tigers, Wolves, Bears, or Webelos based upon their grade level. If they are in first grade (e.g., graduated from kindergarten), then they are Tigers. If they are in second grade (e.g., graduated from first grade), then they are Wolves, etc.

 

At some point during that year, they will "earn" a particular "badge". So, for example, the first graders _are_ Tigers. In the spring of that year, they will _earn the Tiger badge_. The continue to be Tigers until that summer, at which point they become Wolves.

 

Since all Cub Scouts are in one of those four dens (Tigers thru Webelos), they are usually referred to by those names. Therefore, it is very unusual to say that a particular Cub Scout "is a Bobcat". Instead, you would say that he's "finished his Bobcat requirements" or "earned Bobcat" or "has Bobcat". Again, that avoids confusion.

 

For example, my son who is in first grade is a Tiger. He earned Bobcat this fall. This spring, he'll earn his Tiger badge. This summer, he'll become a Wolf, and next spring, he'll finish his Wolf badge, etc.