Cub Scout resident camp

[clemlaw]

>>>>>some camp's "program" for kids in an open field just off of the summer camp site facility. Eating institutional food from a mess hall or sleeping in a wall tent with cot. Nope not for me.

[Eagle92]

Depends on the program. If you got some awesome programs that requires certified folks, i.e. swimming requires a NCS certified Aquatics Director or CS Aquatics Supervisor, Shooting sports require certified folks running both archery and BBs, climbing wall requires NCS certified folks, ad nauseum, then it may be worth it.

 

Agin program, program program.

[Scoutfish]

"Am I wrong to feel so unenthused about this?"

 

Absolutely not. You feel the way you feel because that's how you feel.

 

What I find that I really like is this:

 

"Since I'm not sold on the idea myself, in fairness, I thought I should invite someone who is to our den meeting to hype it up a bit, which they're going to do."

 

I really really commend you for this line of thinking and your actions. Too many adult leaders will decide something is not worth it ( in their own opinion) and blow it off with total disregard of the fact that anybody/ everyboy else might love it.

 

I think it's great you looked outside yourself and gave everybody the oppertunity to decide for themselves.

[SctDad]

Eagle, I have to agree with you about the program. But my thought on this is, WOW, they must have the best program out there and PAY their staff. $90 a person for 3 days and 2 nights. that is alot. Considering that it will probably only be one real day of activities.

 

For that much I could have our campout catered by one of the local eateries, and still have plenty of money left over for program and activities.

 

I think that like many other councils, they are trying to make a profit after the fact.

[Eagle92]

Dad,

 

Some councils do have a very good program. But it does cost money to get the folks and supplies. However the fee for the parent is usually much lower than for the cub, since the parent is there to help the cub.

 

All

 

As for the cost of programing, it can get expensive. I know I wanted to raise my day camp fee from $55 to $75 since we are all day long, unlike all but one in my council, and I wanted to get better quality supplies for our program. But it got nixed. good news is that I only went over budget $3.77, and we are nto doing the activity that was a large chunk of the expenses.

[clemlaw]

I suspect as such programs go, it's probably a pretty good one. The "activities in an open field" quote above is a bit of an exageration.

 

I believe it does include swimming (pool), BB guns, archery, and some kind of boat rides.

 

The council has day camp programs that include the BB guns and archery. For a Tiger Cub, they are big draws. But for $200, I'm sure we could buy a BB gun and a bow and arrow. Of course, is exactly what my Tiger Cub wants me to do, and he's even pointed out how they could be used in self-defense for the inevitable bigfoot attack.

 

I think we're probably going to pass, based mostly on cost, and the fact that our summer is pretty full of various activities, including camping camping, as opposed to cabin camping.

 

It might be just the thing for other families, though. This is a suburban pack, and for many of the families, this might be the closest they get to "camping".

[SSScout]

Clenlaw: I think you have the right impression. But so do you also have the right atitude, the one about camping, the one about the "out" in "scout".

I think you know, if you think about it, that you are in this Scouting stuff for not a short time. If you were not a Scout in your childhood, you are here, now, in it for your CHILD'S childhood. I think that's what I mean.

Anyhow, think about the other Cubs and their parents. The cabin camping is , afterall, a good intro to the wild and wooly stuff. Gradual is good. Can't expect the beginners to want to go wilderness trekking on the firat time,umm? Take the BALOO training so you have the certification to help plan your Pack's outdoor stuff. Your son has a dad (and mom?) that are outdoorsy, yes? Take the Tiger Den (and,eventually, the Pack) along with you when you hike. They will find the fun stuff along the way. One of the Tigers I led umteen years ago just got his Eagle. He remembered the old Den Leader...

 

Set the example, be available to the boys, the parents will come along.

[Eagle92]

SSS gave some great advice.

 

I am going to spin off on a tangent: What woudl you like to see done at a Resident Camp.

[dg98adams]

I'm sure we could buy a BB gun and a bow and arrow. Of course, is exactly what my Tiger Cub wants me to do, and he's even pointed out how they could be used in self-defense for the inevitable bigfoot attack.

 

Sure you could do that, and I did for my son (he has 2 .22 rifles and NRA sharpshooter at 50 feet, before he was 10) ... but you can only earn BB and Archery belt loops at a BSA Camp event where accepted Safety Range officers conduct the activity. Packs are not authorized to run ANY shooting event on their own.

 

And Cubs usually go to "Day Camp", Resident camp usually means day and night and can involve a more defined Medical form (Doctor) if it exceeds 72 continuous hours.

[clemlaw]

Yes, I'm aware of that. And before anyone says so, I'm aware that shooting bigfoot is not an authorized activity for Cub Scouts. That comment was what is sometimes known as a "joke".

 

My son actually already has both the Archery and BB Gun belt loops, which he earned last year as a Kindergartner. (Yes, that is possible in our Council as he was a "Lion Cub" in a pilot program.)

 

That's part of why there is such sticker shock for me. These were earned at a Council day camp, which included many (but not all) of the resident camp programs, and it's held in the same places, probably by the same staff. The cost for that day camp program was something like $30 for Cub Scouts and $10 for parents, for a total of about $40.

 

So where I sense that the value is lacking is paying an additional $160 (plus a half day off work) for two nights in a cabin and a few dining hall meals.

[SR540Beaver]

Maybe I'm not reading correctly or I'm just old and befuddled. Are we talking a Cub Scout weekend camping experience or actually Cub RESIDENT Camping. They are two entirely different things.....at least in my neck of the woods. Our Cub Resident Camp are half week (three night) sessions. They either run from Sunday afternoon thru Wednesday morning or Wednesday afternoon thru Saturday morning. There are eight sessions over the four weeks of June. The staff (youth) is trained and paid, camping is in tents brought from home and meals are in the dining hall. Each year is a different theme. Program is split between Cubs and Webelos with Webelos working on Pins. There is swimming, BB guns, archery, fishing, arts and crafts, games, hikes, etc. There is an opening campfire put on by the staff and a closing campfire put on by the participants. It is a highly successful program with some weeks being maxed out with 325 campers. Occasionally they will over book beyond the limit to the point where they have to run two shifts for meals. The cost is $105 per scout and $65 per parent.

 

In the fall we have Fall Family Adventures over the four weekends in October. Obviously, Friday is set up, Saturday is program with many of the same elements of resident camp, a campfire on Saturday night and breaking camp on Sunday. All meals are in the dining hall. The cost for youth and adults is $20 per.

[clemlaw]

Yeah, that's the problem. Terminology is not used consistently. Here's what this particular $90 per person program consists of (from my memory of what the flyer said, plus observations from other leaders in our pack):

 

Show up at 6:00 PM on Friday. I don't recall whether they feed you on Friday night. Some activities (e.g., campfire) on Friday night. Sleep in Cabin with antsy hyperactive Cub Scouts, most of whom don't want to go to sleep. On Saturday, big program with swimming, boat rides, BB guns, archery, etc., etc., etc. Sleep in Cabin with exhausted Cub Scouts who actually fall asleep. Sunday morning, eat breakfast and go home.

 

Since our current Tiger Cubs will be Wolves by the time this camp takes place, in theory, we could have a 2:1 ratio of adults to Cub Scouts. But in practice, it's 1:1 ratio, since one parent always goes.

 

Now, here is why I personally think that the value is somewhat lacking:

 

1. Our Pack does do overnight family camp, which has the "camping", and some activities (such as hiking belt loop) which can be done easily as a Pack. This is done at a cabin at another Council facility, although most families bring their own tent rather than sleep in the cabin.

 

2. The Council has day camp programs, in both the fall and winter, that duplicate some (but not all) of the Saturday activities. In particular, the fall day camp does include archery and BB guns.

 

3. Our family has signed up for one week at another kind of BSA "family camp", namely, the family campground at one of our council's summer camp facilities. (This is normally intended for families of troops camping there that week, but it's open to all registered members in the Council if space permits.) The cost for one week, for our entire family, is about $100. This includes the campsite and some organized activities (mostly aquatics and crafts). Obviously, this cost does not include food, or whatever activities we'll be doing on our own.

 

So I don't really understand how we're getting $200 of value from this. Call me a cheapskate, but both the pack overnighter and the family camp provide a superior "camping" experience. And almost all of the activities are duplicated by the fall day camp, at a much lower price. The few activities that are not duplicated at day camp (swimming and boat rides) are things that we would do as a family anyway.

[SSScout]

""...are things that we would do as a family anyway. ""

God bless the child that can stand up and say, I've got my own.

 

Not everybody can, knows how, or can afford to go and do that stuff as a family. Let's do'em as a Cub Pack! Or... organize a predominately volunteer Day Camp! Might even get the stay-at- home dads and moms out (aw... I don't know anything about this Scout stuff...) More fun for the Cubs, being with their buddies, maybe a little fun for the adults (I remember the Denwalker mom I overheard mumbling to a compadre about "all the work I'll have piled up waiting for me on monday" moan groan I've been with Johnny all week...).

 

You know what it takes, help them along.

For comparison, our big urban Council has the following:

*Districts sponsor Cub Scout Day Camps. Our District has three. Monday thru friday, 9 to 3 or 4pm, usual camp stuff: Scout skills, nature, flags,crafts, skits, , archery, bbs, one has a raft on a lake, one has a pool. Bring your lunch. Lots of volunteer leadeship, about $125 or so

*Council sponsors a couple of "parent and one" weekends. Saturday morning , lunch, dinner, sunday morn breakfast, lunch, go home. Lots of "extra value" stuff. Might have climbing wall or jr. COPE course, RC planes, archery, BBs, fishing, nature trail, Bring your own tent and gear. maybe $90 a pair.

*Resident Cub Camp. Council thing, at a Cub dedicated camp site (they do other stuff there too, like WB). Big wall tents on platforms,cots, your sleeping bag., arrive sunday late afternoon, thru tues. morn, and a second set , weds. afternoon thru fri. afternoon. Paid Scout staff, meals in dining hall, swim pool, boat/raft class(age appropriate), model rocketry, shooting ranges, crafts, campfire at night, skits, etc. $180 Adults and Den Chiefs get a discount.

Then we get to the Webelos camps, and they are waaaay away...

I still say that Scouting is the best bargain in town.

[Eliza]

Well, I was comparing the $90 price tag with some events in out local Council. Centennial Camporee was $20/person, Fri-Sun, bringing own tents. own food. Webelos were for the day only, $13 per scout (parents free) for a day jam-packed with events. Cub level day long events, with lunch included, $10/person. Upcoming Weboree, Fri-Sun, $20/person, own tent own food, but some cabin camping @ $32/night per person.

 

So, if I multiplied $32 per night x 2 and added food, I could see where a $90 per person cost comes from. But, to my mind it is a VERY HIGH price, compared with similar events I am familiar with. Also, what if a scout came with two parents or a sibling ($270!!).

 

I think $90/180 plus might possibly be OK as an OPTION, but there should also be an option to go for much less, i.e. own tent. own food, or go just for the day.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Remember:

 

When you pay for a Council operated resident camp, you are paying staff salaries!

 

That right there is your expense delta.