Priorities

[jamist649]

Anyone who has a leadership position in a Cub Scout Pack knows very well the amount of time and planning it takes to run a "good" program. I often joke with folks I know that coach soccer, baseball, and other youth activities that thier positions are "easy" (remeber I said JOKE, don't want to start a war of words). They show up, play the game, and go home. It's pretty straightforward, the same game is played every year, and there is hardly ever any change.

 

My point being: Why is it that we often, as Scout leaders, will encounter parents who will hit the ceiling about meeting more than 2 or 3 times A MONTH to get achievements completed for Scouts...but present NO protest to coaches when they demand practice 3 or 4 nights PER WEEK on school nights? Forgoing dinner, grabbing fast food just to make those practices?

 

It seems to me (CM of Pack) that we put so much into planning and then the parents (not so much the Scouts who love to come and participate) have the feeling that if there is nothing else on earth that they may possibily be doing on that day, they will "try to make it".

 

When I was "just" a parent in the Den, I made attending meetings a priority. I looked at it as a committment that we made to the Pack. We NEVER missed a meeting, even when I was unsure about Pack leadership at that time. We had signed on, so we would honor that committment. I felt it wasn't fair to the Den Leader to plan and deliver the program only to have to go back and try to catch my son (and myself) up. I have since learned that I am (so very much) in the minority.

 

Anyway, sorry to vent on you guys like this but it just seems that we as parents seem to have our priorities backwards. How many boys join little leauge (nationwide) and end up playing even minor leauge as an adult? WAY less than 1%. However, how many grown men will talk to you for hours about what they learned as a Scout? Not to discount baseball or other sports, but it just seems a little "off" to me.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Well I am sure if I ran around in the circle of little league parents there would be those who played as youths with lots of fond memories to chew your ear off with. I don't though I run around in the circles of scouting so get the adults with memories of their scouting days, like you..

 

I was very happy my son had no intrest in sports (except a small time with karate).. I knew I could not make the commitment they wanted, (nor did I have a fondness for sports to care too.) But, I knew I could make a commitment to what scouts expected. And we were scout parents with similar feelings as you and made all den meetings & pack meetings unless some major thing interupted it (like a wedding of a family member).

 

The karate failed due mostly to my lack of commitment to get him there and his lack of commitment to practice at home, so he was falling behind others in the course.

 

Scouts stayed form his first grade tiger days, to the present where he is still involved at 20 years old.

[Scoutfish]

It's the football team mentality!

ASk people what teams their school has..and everybody knows about footbal. Some think of basketbal and baseball, but hardly any think of wrestling, soccer, golf, track and field.

 

NObody even thinks about the girls sports.

 

I too went to every meeting and volunteered to help before I was even a volunteer scouter.

 

My son had had perfect attendance for the last 3 years.

 

There is that old saying : "It's only 1 hour a week." Well, they forgot to add : "per scout"

 

It's funny how so many parents think we just show up and every single plan, materials, supplies , and all the coordination just "happen" spontaneously?

 

Funny how we can mention at ever den meeting, 4 or 5 times during pack meetings, send home flyers and post to web sites ( for months to come) info prudent to an event or function, and a bunch of parents will say: "Why didn't you tellus before the last minute?"

I mean, we plan a whole year ahead of time on most things, and at the beginning of the season for the rest.

 

WE tell everybody they are welcome to attend ( and watch) our planning meetings and observers are welcome at leaders meetings.

 

They do not comprehend the hours behind the scenes or the meetings at the pack, district , or council level. No clue about all the trainings euither or time and $$$ spent.

 

 

But seeing those kids beaming big smiles and high fiving each other after gettimng awards or beating a challenge surely does erase what the parents think.

 

 

But yeah, they are thinking about next years football league before this years has even started!

[83Eagle]

Oh, don't get me started on this one. Longstanding complaint of mine. Got a boy in my son's Bear den who hasn't attended a meeting in 2 months because he's involved in a school musical production (it's a kid part in a high school production) where the meet 3 hours EACH NIGHT.

 

When the coach says, practice will be on such and such a date and time, no one complains about it being inconvient, conflicting with such and such.

 

People drop $000s on uniforms and gear for sports but complain scouts is too expensive (I'm not talking about finacially strapped parents)

 

People complain about pack dues, minimal den dues, and/or $15 charter fees but will drop 50 bucks at your average little league game at the concession stand.

 

People wait until the last minute to sign up for things in the hope that something better comes along, or they cancel committments to scouting because something else came up.

 

So yes, I agree that scouting is an afterthought for many families, whereas other activities are a priority. I don't know why.

 

What I tell parents as CM is that yes, we recognize there will be conflicts, but that we hope Scouting takes priority at least some of the times.

 

And when people complain to me because our pinewood derby or campout or whatever is on such-and-such a date that there is a practice or whatever, I always tell them that perhaps they will have luck getting the other organize to reschedule so that it doesn't conflict with their scouting committment.

 

Yeah, that doesn't work but it has gotten a few people at least thinking about it.

[jamist649]

Thanks, everybody, for listening and for making me feel no so "out there". I think alot of the problem is over-scheduling on the parents part. Scouts, soccer, basketball, baseball, karate, etc... Why not pick one or two (or three) and focus on them instead of half-doing 9 different activities?!

 

Ya'll hit the nail on the head too with the financial side of things. I've seen boys with Under Armor shirts and shoes/socks under the uniform, Ipods, cell phones, and the normal variety of handheld games ride up in Mom's Toyota Sequoia only to have Mom throw a fit over a $5 entry fee to the Pinewood Derby. Give me a break!

 

I like the line about making at least some of the Scout meetings priority. I'm going to have to start using that. Can you not miss **ONE** basketball game? I actually had a parent tell me that his son would not be able to attend ANY MORE Saturday meetings until basketball season was OVER. Keyword: ANY. Translation: Your program (despite being the most active in the county and (arguably) the district) is not worthy of my son missing one single solitary moment of basketball.

 

 

 

 

[Shilue]

Yup, it's all about priorities. My son plays soccer and ice hockey. My family is also involved in the Society for Creative Anachronism, and there are usually at least 1 event a month that we would like to go to.

 

However, when my son joined Cub Scouts, I determined that Scouting was going to take priority over everything. My son agrees. He loves his soccer, he loves his hockey. But once a month, his pack meeting interferes with hockey practice. He doesn't go to hockey practice. When he has a hockey game the same Saturday as a campout or other pack activity, he misses the hockey game. We tell his coaches up front that these day are already spoken for and he won't be at the game or the practice.

 

My son is fine with that. He realizes how important Scouting is, and so we adjust our schedule around his Scouting activities.

 

Lots of parents aren't willing to do that.

[AKdenldr]

Yup,

 

Been there, done that, and got the t shirt. I sympathize What can we do differently?

 

I think one secret might be educating the parents.

 

At this point with my Webelos (8 of em) I have very good attendance. What has changed? I think the parent's expectation of the program. They now understand the complicated program better than they did the earlier years. And I had them recommit to the program at the end of the Bear year. The new guys joined with the agreement that they would commit to the schedule through summer camp. (Den closes at 8, I've maintained a waiting list the last 2 years).

 

In the bear year I started pushing more of the responsibility to the boys. I have the denner call all the boys to remind them of events. We talk about the things we just did (and how much fun they were) during snack. And I put up photos of the 'wow' stuff we have done.

 

Although I do schedule "make-up" meetings once in the while, I push the majority of the responsibility for missed achievements to the parents. (Increasingly I am trying to have a 5 minute consult with boy and parents together to do this so they all hear the same information.)

 

I've been thinking recently that better parent education at the beginning of scouts would have decreased the problems (but, I was just a learner myself).

 

Anyone else have ideas?

[Alabama Scouter]

While your post is directly related to Cub Scouts, it is an issue in Boy Scouts too. I was just in a meeting last week and we were bemoaning the fact that baseball, soccer, band, football, girls, etc. all come before the meeting or the campout.

 

Little did I know less than an hour later in a SM conference that a new scout had foregone a basketball game to come to the meeting, and had missed 4 others for scouts. That made my day.

 

 

[OwntheNight]

Seen this movie before!

 

Instant Gratification vs Delayed Fulfillment.

 

As a fan of sports, can I see when somebody has a talent or a "gift" for the game, Absolutely.

 

As a former scout, and a Scouter now, can I see when somebody is "Scoutlike", I like to think so.

 

How did I learn to recognize those traits? I've watched Sports for many years, I've also watched my Scoutmaster and the Scouters I work with very closely.

 

If your looking at the Scouting program as an outsider, you don't see the planning and training and all the time that was spent fostering relationships. You see boys who memorize some lines from a book, wear uniforms with doohickeys on them, and go camping with their buddies once a month and for a week in the summer.

 

After a few years in the program, you then start seeing a reponsible, mature young man who is well rounded and prepared to face the next step in his life head on, not running the other way. How do you recognize this? You saw how this young boy was when he started the program.

 

It's easy to see a boy progress from flag football to pee wee to full contact over time. It's hard to see a boy turn into a man, unless your looking closely.

[OwntheNight]

Forgot to add this.

 

I think these are all great responses and I intend to paraphrase these when I'm writing my CM presentation to new parents.

 

Thanks for the great ideas, keep 'em comin'!

[83Eagle]

I can comment more on the Pack level, not the Troop level.

 

This is preaching to the choir, but it's incumbent upon Packs and Dens to put on a program that boys want to come to and will give up other committments for. One of the reasons youth sports gets priority (beyond the fact that we are more and more a sports-oriented culture) is that they are fun for the boys and make no demands on the parents. Parents show up, watch a game, buy a hot dog, go home. Cub Scouts has to be FUN, and it has to be enough fun for the boys and hopefully enough for the parents that it overcomes the "problem" of needing parent involvement to make it work.

 

Obviously, boys don't have the final say as to where mom and dad drives them, but if you make it interesting for everyone...nothing new to that advice really. You're always going to struggle with a spectrum of scouts and parents. Some have no idea what the program is about but they saw the flyer and came to roundup. Some think its an after-school program where they can dump their kid for an hour of free babysitting. Others are looking to relive their own childhood to get Johnny every badge available and could care less about fun activities.

 

Here are a few other ideas that have worked for us.

 

--

 

I have occasionally had luck with going "over the parents heads" directly to the boys. Example: we had a winter camp scheduled and we weren't getting the # of reservations back I had expected. So, the "announce it in the newsletter" approach wasn't working.

 

At the next Pack meeting I brought in some props. Prop group #1: golf clubs, whiffle balls, and orange cones. I asked the boys to guess what it was for. (It was for "snow golf.") Got lots of answers but said, "I'm not going to tell you--you have to come camping to find out." Held up a ziplock bag. "Do you know how to make your own ice cream in this? No? Gotta come to winter camp to find out."

 

Then I started to ask for cheers--cheer if you like sledding! Cheer if you want to go snowshoeing! Cheer if you don't want to take a shower for two days! (Ok, I didn't do that last one.)

 

Well by this time the atmosphere was electric, so I ended with, "Well, then you gotta make sure you get camping forms in!"

 

--

 

Patches, patches, and more patches. I'm a HUGE fan of the red patch vests at the Cub level. They can be made for just a few bucks and make a great den project.

 

Every den and pack activity should be accompanied by a patch and it should be awarded in front of the group. They cost as little as 69 cents apiece online.

 

As a wise Scouter once told me: "If a boy finishes the first year with a 40-pound patch vest, he will never leave." You get the idea. As boys see what they're missing, they don't want to miss out the next time.

 

Plus, they are GREAT recruiting tools. My son (Bear) comes to roundup to help run some games for the kids while I give the parents the here's-what-scouting-is spiel. But first, he comes up in front of the group with his nearly-full, 360-degree, red vest on. I name off the activity that each of his patches is for. It works.

[83Eagle]

Aaaaaaannnnd....then there are leader issues.

 

Just got an email from our 4th grade Webelos DL. Well, more specifically our advancement chair got one that she forwarded to me. She won't be at our Blue & Gold tonight because something more important came up.

 

Of course the signs were there when she gave me no input into the Webelos badge presentation, and when she did email me late last week to say that her den will not participate in the scout skits at the B&G (making them the only den not to do so) because there was "no interest."

 

So it's not just the "regular" parents with priority issues...

[momof2cubs]

This is a really sore point with me. I guess because I KNOW that den leaders put a lot of time and effort into a meeting, so it's beyond rude to only show up if there's no conflict with absolutely anything else. It's akin to accepting a dinner party invitation and not showing up after your host has bought the food and wine, slaved over the stove all afternoon, cleaned the house, and set the table for 8.

 

I have run into this with both my sons' dens and it's the pits. One leader recently a leaders meeting suggested that we shouldn't make such a big deal out of the awards at pack meetings because it makes the ones that didn't get any "feel bad". Yeah right. The general consensus is the boys the earned the stuff earned it because they worked at it and made scouting an important part of their schedule. The ones that didn't, well..didn't. So too bad.

 

You are not gonna get that trophy if you don't show up at the game are you? Same with scouting.

[beardad]

part of it is also, most sports season's are just 6 to 8 weeks long, compared to a (mostly) year round for the scouts. also work being done in a den meeting can usually be made up or done at home, but you can't make up a missed practice.

 

My son is involved in Football, and Scouts. he has missed some of both to go to the other. but I think alot of parents think that while sports is for only a short time, scouts will always be there.