Pinewood

[semperfiscouter]

Good morning! I'm relatively new to the forums, and I've searched through them but I haven't found anything that covered Pinewood Derby. I'm a Wolf Leader, and have attended two of our Pack's PWD's. The last one was a fiasco, rules were changed last minute, cars were accepted into races then later questioned - implied cheating, and mostly more about Dad's cars then involving the Cub's and it being about them. Anyways, i have a list of suggested improvements such as bringing in the Boy Scouts to officiate and help out and be the judges in case a dispute, When, a dispute arises etc. Also considering having an outlaw division where almost anything goes, as well as turning it into a school outreach and open to the school members but charge a higher cost for the car to dove tail off it to bring in some much needed revenue. Do any of you have a good working set of best practices that works well for Pinewood?

[tdk101]

Our PWD has Cub Scout divisions for each rank level and then the winners from each rank go for the Pack Cup. We also have a sibling division for any sibling in grades 5 and under, a Girl Scout division and then an 6th grade & up division.

 

All divisions follow the same rules. It has worked very well for us. We charge the non-Cub Scouts $5 for the kit and then a $2 entry fee to help cover the cost of trophies or medals and patches.

 

The families love it because everyone gets to participate in the fun. After the official racing, the track is open for free racing and you see families lining their cars up to race each other.

 

We do use Boy Scouts to put the cars on the track but we have leaders that volunteer to be judges - we have 2 judges. If there is a question as to which car won, we run the race again. If the leaders child is racing, there is someone that steps in to officiate that particular race.

 

Hope that helps.

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting ideas TDK. I forwarded you post on to a couple of additional Cubmaster in case they might want to adopt some of your methods.

[semperfiscouter]

That sounds pretty good, and similar to what we have going on: Each rank races, at the end there is a final between all the winners, although, the fastest car of all entries is the one that receives the grand trophy - which is kind of strange considering I would think it would be fastest car of all the winners. Initially each Scout receives a car kit free of charge from the Pack (is this normal, suggestions?) and everyone else that's in the Pack family can buy one at $5/kit and race it. I like the idea of a $2 entry as it would help offset the cost of handing out cars etc. We also sell coffee/donuts in the morning and pizza/drinks in the afternoon. We're not trying to make it into a total fundraiser, but enough to offset costs of cars and trophies and pins. Right now, there are three leader judges, regardless if their son races and there's a question (point of contention already rises), a race committee to determine if something is ineligible etc. I would like to see more participation of the Cub's otherwise they turn their car in, and wait for it to race and that's it. Not sure of a happy medium if one exists in PW! Does anyone have a good set of rules and guidelines, or, have tried an outlaw division? I was thinking for outlaw: no liquid propellants, no rocket engines and the car needs to be same width, length can be whatever and hopefully this would be the one the dad's build cars for and leave kids to their own. I thought about having a one day shop where leaders/parents would bring equipment, saws, sanders etc to school or elsewhere and scouts can use the time to build something they would normally not be able to if their parents don't have access to all the tools and saws - has anyone tried that?

[ScoutNut]

>>"turning it into a school outreach and open to the school members but charge a higher cost for the car to dove tail off it to bring in some much needed revenue."

[The Blancmange]

Unfortunately, all of the issues you mention have been experienced by other units. Scroll down through the older posts in the Cub Scout forum and you will see more threads. My biggest pet peeve is the Tiger Cub who comes in with the flawlesss, picture perfect car where you know that boy probably just sat there and watched while Dad made the whole thing (if he even got to watch). There are solutions, as far as the rules go, for most issues, but I haven't figured out how to discourage this one.

 

Whatever rules you adopt, make sure you publicize them early and stick to your guns when people complain. It will end up being much more fun for the kids as a whole.

[semperfiscouter]

Good point on the charging aspect, I was thinking it would include some tickets to the refreshments at face value. I like charging entry fees to the outlaw division, that would certainly help things out. Also, in my Pack, each year, the Bears are responsible for it and modifying rules/staffing/judging/volunteering/setup/tear down/etc etc etc. Does any other Pack rotate these functions, or is there PW committee that stays the same throughout the years they are present, and as transition time to Boy Scouts occurs a new group is brought on? I'll look through the older posts for future questions - thanks!

[ScoutNut]

Having the rules, and how the race is run, change every year is nuts. No wonder there are arguments.

 

I can see having the Bear den host the event, but how the race is run should be a Pack decision, and consistent from year to year.

 

Does your Council/District hold a Pinewood Derby? If so, those are the rules you should use for your Pack PWD.

 

semperfiscouter stated - >>"Each rank races, at the end there is a final between all the winners, although, the fastest car of all entries is the one that receives the grand trophy - which is kind of strange considering I would think it would be fastest car of all the winners."

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm not a big fan of the Pinewood Derby, which often seems overproduced, overly competetive and excessively driven by parental egos.

 

 

Our pack has used the district PWD as our race the past two years.

 

 

This year I'd like to hand out PWD cars, give boys and parents 15 minutes to assemble and decorate their cars and give the boys themselves the opportunity to set up their own races with their buddies.

 

I'd give each boy an award certificate they can sign and keep for their scrap book, and each time they win a match in a race they set up they would get a star for their certificate.

 

I proposed this at our last parent meeting, and one parent objected that if boys used the wheels on their cars outside the "real" race they would get worn and the cars would go slower.

 

---- and this was a Mom!

 

By organizing their own races the boys get a real hands on racing experience. Too many PWD races the boys hand their car to an adult and that's about it. I really don't see that as a very good Scouting experience, although boys certainly get involved in all the rah-rah of racing.

 

I still want to experiment with the method I've described above. At present we have Tiger Cub through Bear dens. For Webelos there's more of an argument for more formal racing I think.

 

 

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

Greetings Semperfiscouter! and welcome to the forums. I rejuvenated just a few of the old PWD threads for you. (actually I skipped a bunch and only went back a couple of years)

Most of the discussions occur in the Cub Scout section so if you'd like I can move this one for you. You might find some good insights in those old threads for the questions you've raised. I think many of us have confronted those situations and a few of us have some good ideas on it. Anyway, welcome.

[frank10]

I was talking to another Scouter about the PWD and his pack has a 4 lane track with starting buttons for each lane, just like real drag racing, the racers watch the lights in the starters pole and hit there button when the light comes on. Too fast and the car doesn't go since the master power isn't on yet and you have to hit it again. Too slow and you trail the pack. Sounded like fun.

They also use the track as a fund raiser at the local fair where folks pay to race. They get to choose from a selection of already made cars, put it on the track and grab the button. I'm told the public loves it.

[JMHawkins]

A couple of things we do to try and make it more fun and less contentious. The weekend before the race, the Cubmaster holds an Open Garage where boys (and dads) can bring their cars to the weigh in/inspection. After the weigh in, the car is sequestered and the Cubmaster holds onto it until the race, so any disagreements about whether the car is legal or not can be resolved way in advance. Also, for families without access to tools or the know how to use them, they have a change to work on their cars at the Open Garage.

 

We also started doing an Open Division. The idea is to maybe channel some of the more competitive dads into building their own cars instead of monopolizing the Scout's cars. But something to keep in mind, PWD isn't meant to be something the boy does all by himself, it's supposed to be something he can do together with a parent. So dad doing some of the work is not a violation of the spirit. But I know what you mean about those Tiger Cub cars...

 

Our initial Open Division was fun (and worked as a recruiting event!) but didn't really solve the helicopter dad issue.

 

PWD can be a really great, fun event. There's a reason it's the signature Cub Scout activity. So stick with it - it'll be worth it if you can solve the problems. The boys will probably remember it for the rest of their lives if you can get it dialed in. Good luck!

[gpraceman2]

There are some good suggestions here. I would like to throw out a couple of good resource websites that might help.

 

Derby Talk - Forum for anything and everything relating to building the cars and running the races

http://derbytalk.com

 

GrandPrix Race Central - Ideas, information and resources for running the races

http://grandprix-race-central.com