Has anyone heard of this? (AOL arrow question)

[Eliza]

Scoutfish -- I like what you have described. To me, it seems important that all the boys do not receive EXACTLY the same arrow, ie that there is a way of recognizing that some boys have worked extremely diligently, while at the same time not marginalizing the boys who were not able to work as consistently.

 

I'll have to think about this (ASAP) -- in our pack the ceremony is memorable -- there is a "fire" (dry ice and so on) on stage, and as each boy goes up to get his arrow from someone dressed as a Native American (more or less), the arrow flashes in a burst of light (using flash paper).

 

I'll probably post later with questions about the specifics of arrows -- found a 2006 post from here with a lot of good ideas....

[Eliza]

tdk

THANK YOU!

 

I get it about the colors. I am not sure how you added the thread with a knot only at the beginning and the end -- is it the glue that holds the joined threads together?

 

The raw hide for hanging is a good idea!

 

And the nameplates -- were they attached to the arrows, or separate?

[Twocubdad]

Clemlaw and I are over here in the curmudgeon corner having coffee and pie.

 

I don't get it. What's the point of these fancy arrows? In another thread Basementdweller mentions he puts something like four hours into EACH arrow? As BD asks in that thread, WHY? Fortunately, during my time as Cubmaster and pack committee chairman, we never got involved in any of this. Seems like a whale of a lot of work for someone to create a katchkie the Webelos' parents will really appreciate.

 

But for real, where's the program basis for this? Which core value does all this effort support?

 

Our pack did do a number of things for the Webelos who earned Arrow of Light and for those who did not but were moving on to the troop. The AoL recepients received a really nice embroidered patch, suitable for uniform wear, with the sunrise above the arrow. The sunrise had seven rays representing the seven days of the week and reminding the Scouts to do their best every day. Only the boys who earned Arrow of Light received this.

 

The boys who were continuing on to Boy Scouts were all given a Boy Scout Handbook by the pack as a going away gift. The troop also give those Scouts new troop hats and neckers.

 

And everyone, regardless of Arrow of Light or joining the troop, were given a shadow box for all their Cub Scout memorabilia. The shadow boxes had been hand-made during the fall by the Webelos I's on the way to earning Handyman activity pin. No, they weren't as fancy as the $45 shadow boxes in the Scout catalog, but they were just as nice as they ones those Scouts built and gave to the class of Webelos ahead of them.

 

I would suggest the things we presented the boys DID support the program. Of course the embroidered patch was the AoL badge. The handbook, hat and necker were needed as Boy Scouts. And of course the shadow boxes, besides being a nice gift, were part of the Webelos I program.

 

[Basementdweller]

Hey look I showed up in this thread finally.

 

Hey clem my Career Arrows are worth about $200 each with the amount of time in each of them.

 

Elza how did that $250 klondik sled work out... It sounds to me from your posts is you are looking for a way to reward boys(your son) who have been in the program longer than the new boys. That is simply wrong. Read the following.

 

First off, there is no arrow of light arrow per say. We call them Career arrows as they represent the cubs journey thru scouting. EVERY Webelos gets one when they leave the Pack AOL or not.

 

Each arrow is unique to the boys journey, we include summer camps and religous awards, leave no trace and outdoor activity awards on ours. So by there very nature a boy who has been in the program longer will have more bands on his arrow. I disagree with adding extra bobbles to it to make it special for your son.

 

I do spent 4-6 hours per arrow making them. I just finished 12 of them today after a couple of weeks working evenings. I have purchased kits in the past, I use genuine hand knapped flint arrow heads, Turkey feathers and sinew to put them together, then I band them with cross stitch thread. They are beautiful when they are done.

 

The boys or parents do not appreciate the amount of effort it takes to make them. My son did but he sees how much work they are. Had a parent tell my I know it was a lot of work but you like making them. NO I DON"T.

 

I will never forget the young man who after receiving the arrow did a karate head butt thing and broke it in half 2 minutes after receiving it. then the verbal assault from the angry parent.

 

The ceremony we have 3 different ones we use. We are in native american garb and usually spin an elebrate tale about little akelas journey.

 

I have a real problem with Scouters who put their son FIRST. As a scout leader I have struggled with how to treat my son. Many a time he has given up his money from the popcorn table, because we did not make enough to split with the boys, I slowed his advancement so I wouldn't have to deal with the whispers in the background. I never sign off on his advancement and I have never handed him an award at a ceremony. I have smiled and applauded his accomplishments.

[tdk101]

Eliza - they are not using glue this year. You just wrap the bands tightly and then as a new color is added it continues along the way until she is done with that color. When she is done with the color, she cuts it off a little longer so the next color will wind around it.

 

The nameplates were printed on cardstock and had a hole punched in it. Then it was attached to the rawhide.

 

Some of the arrows will take several hours of work but the kids were very excited to have them. The parents seemed to appreciate it as well.

[shortridge]

Just my opinion - The symbolism of the arrow is so linked to the Arrow of Light award that a display arrow, if your pack chooses to use this, should be given to only those who have earned the AOL. Figure out another gift for those Webelos who haven't earned the AOL. Otherwise, it has the potential to be really confusing.

 

But if your pack is putting hours and hours into making these displays and gifts, I'd advise you to seriously consider a recalibration of your priorities. Keep It Simple isn't just part of KISMIF - it's a good method to make sure you don't burn out. Career arrows or whatnot are just not that important. Put your time and energy into a really good program for the B&G, and don't worry about the symbolism of thread colors.

 

I got an AOL display arrow when I got my AOL, a simple target arrow on a display board. It sat atop my dresser for a few years, then got boxed up in the attic. Today, it's the items I earned from later in my Scouting career that have the place of pride and are most important to me. The arrow was nice, but not all that significant.

[artjrk]

In my time as a Cub Scout leader, each den did something different.

 

My oldest, not in my den, received a plaque made by the den leader. He was skilled in wood working so it was a gift from him.

 

My second kid, in my den, we had arrow kits. (about $12 each) between the two web II dens we had 21 boys. Instead of bands, we personalized them with leather thongs and colored beads signifying each rank earned and one for Arrow of light. The kids loved them and they still mention them years later. The Den leaders and assistants got together to assemble. We were able to complete them all in one night and enjoyed a few cold ones together as we discussed each kid.

 

My suggestion is not to have the award be a Pack thing but a Den thing. It makes it a bit more personal and meaningful to the Scout and the Leader.

[Eliza]

Wow, this board can sure be counted on for a lot of opinions!

 

Twocubdad & Clemlaw -- hello out there in curmudgeon-land! I The other day I was talking to someone who might be classified as a curmudgeon. I was in his office, and what is hanging prominently on the wall of this very successful businessman? You guessed it -- an arrow of light arrow on a plaque. I can't explain exactly why this is so important (haven't BTDT), but, on some level, I "get" it. Not to say that I don't get your point of view also.

 

Basementdweller -- I'm not looking for special recognition for any relatives of mine. Like you, if I am in any position where something might possible be construed as favoritism, I bend over backwards to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

But back to the arrow business, just where I am coming from:

1. Read the recent arrow posts here; think arrows look neat

2. Find out I have a number of B&G jobs, including providing arrows

3. Find out what arrows we got last year

4. Read last year's 'script' for B&G -- email people that we have some non-AoL boys this year, and I am concerned that they could feel marginalized, as a big part of the ceremony is awarding arrows.

5. Then I find out that all boys get arrows. So the problem of the possible marginalized non-AoL boys is taken care of. Now I am wondering if there is a way to recognize both the AoL and the non-AoL boys in an individual way.

 

I really like what artjrk said about keeping the awards personal. And I am concerned about ALL the boys.

[Hawkrod]

I will add that for our unit, arrows are not the norm. We did give everybody who earned AOL an arrow as on our way to Jambo I had stopped at a reservation trading post and had a great opportunity to buy actual, native made, arrows at a great price (guaranteed to never happen again! LOL). last year we did not give arrows etc... A few years ago (more than I want to think about really, time flies) I was a Webelos den leader and we had all completed our activity pins about a month out of AOL (by plan) and for a month I worked diligently with the boys to teach them to make arrows. Each made his own and decorated it as he saw fit. I did not see the point of marking each with tabs or colors representing what he had earned as it was on his uniform. What I taught the boys was to decorate it to represent themselves. My son, who is days away from Life Scout, has his hanging above his bed in a shadowbox. It means a heck of a lot more to him than one somebody gave him.

[Eliza]

Hawkrod

That is a wonderful, practical suggestion!

 

Although I also love the idea of marking achievements, on a practical level, it could be difficult. Pack advancement records are not that great for past years, and it might be hard to find out what a boy had done as a Bear or a Wolf....

 

We have one more meeting before B&G/crossover. It could be a nice project. And I would like the boys to have something that didn't look as if it were off the shelf.

 

THANK YOU!

[ScoutNut]

Eliza, as the AOL became a Cub Scout rank in 1972, the arrow plaque you noticed on that successful businessman's wall was most likely his son's, and not his. That rather supports the argument that fancy arrows are more for the parents than the boys.

 

Finding out what things the boys have done thru the years is very simple, with no complicated, historical, Pack paperwork needed.

 

Simply look at their uniforms.

 

Everything should be there. If they are wearing the tan shirt, have them bring in their blue one so you can see what is there. Check out their brag vest's (or whatever they use for extra patches) too. If the boys have not bothered to save their blue shirt, or their old patches, then it obviously was/is not that important to them.

 

You can always simply do a generic arrow with the boys name, and his start and end dates with the Pack, written on the shaft. To make it a bit fancier you can use a wood burner instead of a sharpie to write. If you want to differentiate the arrows for the boys who earned AOL, draw the AOL symbol (arrow w/sunbursts) after their membership dates.

 

Or, if money is no object, there are plenty of places online that you can order custom made up arrows.

[CalicoPenn]

ScoutNut - 1972 is far enough away so that the first Cubs that earned the Arrow of Light are, or are going to turn, 50 this this year. Are you suggesting someone can't be a successful businessperson if they are 50 or younger?

 

 

[Eliza]

ScoutNut -- he said it was his AoL.

[Eagle92]

Ok my $.02 worth. I know my OA chapter uses arrows for the AOL ceremony. Depending upon the pack and or event the arrows may be simply decorated, i.e. name and pack number (some packs and at Webeloree) to really elaborate ones that cannot be put in the Mighty Chief's quiver, but must be handed to him.

 

Why we do this, it's pretty cool to have the Mighty Chief draw an arrow and read the name. Plus it looks better than reading thenames form a sheet of paper, or memorizing them. Although the radio and earpiece does work. Plus if the pack allows us, we do the UNWORTHY arrow, and listen tot he collective gasps of adults. Gotta be careful with that though, and get approval to do it.

[resqman]

When my son bridged, he got a handmade arrow with painted bands, wooden plaque and awe inspiring ceremony - pagent where the Tiger cubs were handed arrows by "the Chief" to be awarded to the AOL recipents. Flash paper was tied to the arrows and burned to prove they were worthy. Webelos who did not earn the AOL did not get an arrow.

 

The arrow is buried in the back of his closet and he could realy care less. It may have more meaning to him when he his kids join scouts in 20 years but right now, not much.

 

Earned my AOL in '71. Don't remember any ceremony or bridging. Got a patch to sew below my pocket. I remember asking what it was for and got the answer "Because you were a cub scout."

 

We didn't wear brag vests but instead wore the red wool jac with all our patches sewn on the back. Collecting a patch for every scout event was a big thing when I was a boy. Scouts in my troop have no interest in collecting pathches. Times and troops have different cultures. I still enjoy collecting patches to events I attend. Wish I had more of my childhood scout stuff to fondle and remember.