Clashing again with COR

[Lisabob]

I can tell you really are passionate about scouting and I thank you for that. I wasn't telling you that you really ought to consider stepping down as your primary strategy here.

 

Let me ask you something: just how deep is the personal history here? Because what I'm sensing is two things. One is that you just plain disagree with the COR's choices about who gets help and who doesn't. (and that's already been discussed, in terms of your options)

 

The other thing I am sensing is that this is not mainly about policy disagreements, but more about personal disagreements.

 

With that in mind, and considering that you evidently have a strong desire to stay with this pack, then I think you need to take every possible step to avoid making this a personality conflict issue (even if it actually is one).

 

Request a meeting with the COR about budgeting only if your treasurer is there with you, so that it isn't "you" vs. "him," but rather, the CC and treasurer having a budget discussion with the CO's representative. Keep it dispassionate and about "how can we use our budget to the greatest effect, given the following constraints (cost of awards, number of families not paying, desire to remain solvent, etc.)?" Let your treasurer do most of the talking.

 

Request a meeting with the IH to talk about the institutional values the CO wants to see the pack pursue. This would be a good annual practice, actually, to retain a healthy relationship. Don't make it a gripe session about the COR, but rather, "We want to be sure we're on the same page. Here's what we are hearing you want. Let's talk about how we can work to support that, and what it means on paper." If it is not what your IH actually wants, this gives them an opportunity to say so without making it a complaint-fest about the COR.

 

If the COR is really bungling things and is also interfering in ways he should not - AND - if the IH wants and values YOUR service, then sooner or later, the IH will have to play the heavy with the COR, perhaps even replacing him. However, in the meantime, you cannot make the IH do this if s/he doesn't want to, and you'll likely fail to convince the IH if it looks like a personal battle between you and the COR.

 

 

[Pack212Scouter]

As others have said, you have to be careful about judging other's situations. It's hard to tell without delving deeply into their finances. Some will take advantage of you, and some who need it will refuse to ask.

 

In our Pack, we maintain a Scholarship fund...have a specific annual fundraiser event to replenish it (the local mall gives us one of their fountain cleanouts and the Scouts spent an evening cleaning, sorting, and rolling). All that is required is an expression of need for a Scholarship and it is given. As long as they fundraise and volunteer, then we will continue to help as needed.

 

What is not being said by some here though, is that your Pack has a history of financial difficulties. You need to have a serious sit down, not just with the COR, but it should include the CM, CC, COR, whoever at your church is over the program area, and either your UC or DC. You need to come to a thorough and complete understanding about what is expected and where the funds are coming from. It is great to have a huge heart, but if the church or the Pack is not there next year, then it won't be able to help anyone else. Financial responsibility has to fall in here somewhere. Only after all parties come to an understanding will this situation be remotely close to being solved.

[ScoutNut]

(If this seems out of place it is because I removed the original post at the request of the original poster - packsaddle)

 

 

 

Not sure why your District Commissioner is picking, and registering, leaders for your Pack. That is not his responsibility.

 

However, yes, the Charter Organization Representative (COR), as the "head" of the Charter Organization's Scouting Division, is "in charge", and can tell any volunteer that their services are no longer needed.

 

The COR, CC, and CM, should all be working together.

 

Why were you asking for a list of who had paid for Blue and Gold, if Blue and Gold is over and done with? Was there a problem with the finances that was not addressed at the time?

 

Did you discuss the need to inventory the storage facility at a Pack Leaders Meeting? Do you have a Committee Member in charge of Pack equipment?

 

Since you really have no idea what it is for, I recommend attending the meeting this Sunday with a positive attitude.

 

BTW - If your District Commissioner is indeed chewing tobacco at one of your Pack's meetings/activities, you are well within your rights to remind him that using tobacco products is not allowed at the meeting/activity, and to direct him to an area where it is allowed.

 

However - Stating "he clearly has no regard for the principles of scouting" is a huge overreaction. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Scoutfish]

 

Because what comes around- goes around.

 

One day, when that den of Tigers are going to cross over and rae also having an AOL ceremony, their will be paid for by that years Tigers.

 

Our pack does something slightly similar.

 

We recharter in the end of Dec/ beginning of Jan.

 

We charge $40.00 in fees that includes recharter and insurance from BSA . Yeah, that leaves $20 for pack dues plus the weekly den dues of $1.00 BBQ chicken dinner and popcorn makes up the difference

 

So it is Dec and recharter time. Webelos II boys pay the same fee as everybody else. Most of their fee covers National and Insurance and also pauys for any Plaques, awards, service arrows, etc..

 

Any left over monet reverts to next years incoming Tiger den.

 

Why? Because at roundup. those Tiger pay for regsitration, Boys Life and BSA insurance and do not pay the pack a dime until recharter time.

 

What comes arouind goes around. It just works opposite for us.

 

 

In your situation, I migght charge a prorated fee. Figue out what each active month of being in the pack costs. Divide your dues by that amount minus BSA insurance and registration. When the boys cross out, either refund them that amount or just figure how long before they cros over to begin with and pro rate the fee to match.

 

But now, what about the Webelos II that do not get AOL and stick around for the full year? Does the COR think they should not pay?

 

Now as far as money going with scout: We will transfer ( through scout office) for a scout for any money left over in his scout account, to his next unit.... IF HE ASKS.

 

If any pack or den dues are left over. they go back to the pack and ultimately get used for next years new Tigers.

[SeattlePioneer]

(I have edited this to maintain anonymity for the original poster at their request - packsaddle)

 

Congratulations on trying to do the rtight things by paying attention to the money and property of the Pack!

 

'Way too many units don't take sufficient care about pack finances ---especially controls over cash. Sometimes that can bite units, and it offers temptations to weak people that wouldn't be there if sufficient controls were in place.

 

So I applaude your interest and concern. I would go into the meeting with a problem solving attitude --- maybe they are going to pin a medal on you for your care and concern?

 

Your requests are reasonable. I'd like to know what there objections to helping you might be? The only one with a degree of reasonable ness is that it can be a nuisance to account for stuff. That's an argument for trying to reduce the burden though, not for failing to account for things.

 

 

You might want to purchase a three part receipt book. When purchases are made (cash especially) a receipt is completed. One copy goes to the person making the purchase, a second to the treasurer with the payment and the third stays in the book.

 

I also prefer to expend pack funds by making as many small expenses "free" to avoid collecting small amounts of cash. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[moosetracker]

(edited to maintain anonymity of the original poster, as requested by them - packsaddle)

 

Welcome to the forums.. One helpful suggestion, you have a problem that is different from the original Thread, you should open a new thread. The little flag "new" gets you alot more attention, then an old thread which many don't go back to the old thread since the original problem has already come and gone and they don't spend time rehashing stuff just to rehash it..

 

The COR can hire & Fire.. The Commissioner (or your unit Commissioner) may get involved in getting people to step up to the major jobs that need filling if the unit is about to fold due to lack of leadership. That is part of their function, to step in when the unit is falling apart.

 

But.. Once the unit is functioning (or at least limping) they may not get involved and neither Commissioner or DE will take your side over a COR.. The COR's or the CO's own the pack, and they don't step in on their turf to side against them.

 

Go to the meeting with a positive attitude, but stand firm in being allowed to oversee what your positions make you responsible for.. If the meeting is what you fear, then happily walk away, because if they are that sensitive over the treasurer checking over the accounting of funds at something where money changed hands then something is fishy.. If someone fears an inventory of the equipment, then something is fishy.. And you don't want your wife or yourself to somehow become the scapegoats if it comes to light.. and it definitely could be blamed on the Treasure or the CC..

 

You need to feel that everyone is being on the up and up, and that you have the right to review anything that your position makes you responsible for.. You should not be ask to trust in people who are suspiciously over sensitive about you poking around in the affairs of the unit you are responsible for overseeing.. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Eagle92]

(edited to maintain the anonymity of the original poster as requested by them and perhaps due to the suggestion in this post - packsaddle)

 

I agree with Moose as this should be a separate thread.

 

 

Also you may want to change your moniker. Yes commentary on FB is public and everyone knows your name, but this site is also public. While we may not use names here, if you are here long enough, enough info will get out so that folks can tell who you are.

 

One example was a friend of mine from Summer Camp Staff posting on here. Enough info was given so that I ID'ed him. Wound up getting back in touch with an old friend. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[ScoutNut]

I am still unclear on why the DC is involved in the day-to-day operation of your unit. Why does the DC have anything to say about your Pack's storage unit? Why would the DC know anything about what is, or is not, inside your storage unit? Why would he care? Is he a member of your Pack, along with being DC?

 

As for the things he has told you -

 

Yes, a BSA unit CAN accept gifts. They can NOT SOLICIT gifts, but they can directly accept donations. However, they can do so only as long as the donor is either not going to claim it as a tax deduction, or if the Charter Organization is a 501©(3) non-profit, and the donation is going thru the CO (a good relationship with your CO is needed for this). BSA units are not stand alone 501©(3) non-profit entities. They are owned by, and take their tax status from, their Charter Organization. If a donor claims a donation to your Pack as a donation to BSA, it is possible that the donor will then have a problem with the IRS, especially if your Charter Organization is a for-profit organization. There is no requirement that your council be informed of donations to the Pack.

 

If your DC is instructing Pack leaders on how to steal equipment from the Pack that is a very bad thing. Have you contacted the Council Commissioner about your issues with the DC? I would do so no matter what the outcome of Sunday's meeting is.

 

There is not a whole lot you can do about the Sunday meeting. Don't automatically assume you will be getting the boot. Come prepared with backup to questions/issues you have. If they do ask you to resign, do so graciously. Then find a new Pack that works well, and leave these folks to do their own thing.

 

 

[BadenP]

Yet another example of why it is almost always the adults who spoil the scouting experience for the youth. Maybe all unit leaders should be required to go through an intensive conflict management course every 2-3 years.

[John-in-KC]

Welcome to the Forums, original poster. (edited to maintain anonymity by request - packsaddle)

 

As a practical matter ...

 

It's not the best practice to have a CC/CM in the same family (spouses). I also feel that way about CC/Treasurer or CM/Treasurer. No matter how good the books are kept, you risk someone accusing... Sad, but too often true.

 

I think you need, sooner than later, to decide if you want to be a DL or the CC. The problem is come whenever you recharter next, ScoutNet will force your unit to have a DL for your boys Den, and it will force your Pack to have a CC. Here's the rub: It errors out if one person has more than one registered Scouting position in the same unit. Now, you can be an ADL to your son (off the books), or you can be Ass't Chairman (off the books), so there's more than one way to do all the things you want to do as a grownup.

 

That said, Scouting is a fairly long trail. If your son enjoys it, you may be on the trail for a decade or longer. Do you want to burn out early?

 

Have fun... KISMIF. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[packsaddle]

All of the responses on 12 March 2011 were to an original post which I deleted at the request of the original poster. The original poster expressed gratitude for the information but may have been concerned about anonymity - as suggested in one of the responses. The original poster may rejoin the forums at a later date but if so, they expressed the intention of doing so with a more-anonymous forum name. That said, the responses WERE useful so unless someone else requests their complete removal I have left them for others to read - without reference to the original poster.