If You Could Change CS Advancement

[Eagle92]

At a meeting the other nite, the topic of CS advancement came up. Several folks said the CS requirements and electives need to be updated some, and revamped. What are your thoughts? What would you change?

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm a fan of the Tiger Cub Program. It makes a point of involving parents and requiring some good kinds of outings.

 

 

I'd like to see more of that format for Wolves and Bears. Also I think there's too much emphasis on more or less formal kinds of learning in Wolves, Bears and Webelos.

 

Too much program complexity, especially for Webelos.

 

My standard for signing off Cub Scout Achievements is for boys to Do Their Best while STILL having FUN! I had to work pretty hard to do that as a defacto Wolf Den Leader/Cubmaster last year.

 

That was fine as far as it went (aside from being hard work for me), but parents and Scouts who missed meetings often never made up the material and didn't get their badges.

 

SIMPLER and MORE FUN! is my bias. Look at the Tiger Cub Program and ramp that up somewhat for older Cub Scouts.

[AKdenldr]

The long term required Wolf achievements for 2nd grade boys (6 and 7 yo) -- tracking a week of meals and a month of chores? snore. Also, no place, as I remember it, to require or document and reward service in the Wolf book. At the wolf level a little more flexibility for scouts who miss events with their den.

 

Bear categories were extremely difficult to get over to parents -- How about 12, or 15 even, completed achievements in the book earns the bear -- rest to electives.

 

I'd drop the less active Webelos activity pins, and put in more outdoorsy requirements. The Science activity pin seems too difficult in comparison to the other pins. If you're going to require a belt loop for Citizenship -- put the requirements right in the handbook. More outdoorsy requirements.

 

Like the new scout book, if rewrites were done, referring to the scout website would be great. In addition a 2 page spread that was at the back of the book that showed the requirements and referred back to the handbook pages with the full verbage and details (like the scout book) would be great. Little tracks you colored in never really worked in my dens.

 

All in all though, I have seen great growth in my boys with the program as written.

[Rockford8070]

About the only real gripe I have is that you have to re-earn any belt loops that the boy already earned if he needs them for an activity pin. He's not going to learn anything new really. I'd rather see some of the belt loop requirements put into the activity badge, not all of them mind you just the ones the wouldn't have already done.

 

For example, Citizen activity badge. The boy needs to earn the Citizenship belt loop. Well if he's already done it that's a waste. Even if he hasn't look at the requirements for the belt loop:

 

1. Develop a list of jobs you can do around the home. Chart your progress for one week.

2. Make a poster showing things that you can do to be a good citizen.

3. Participate in a family, den, or school service project.

 

Now I can see adding number 3 to the list of activity badge requirements. For number 2, that is already kind of handled with the requirement for the activity badge that says:

 

Explain the rights and duties of a citizen of the United States. Explain what a citizen should do to save our natural resources.

 

But for the first belt loop requirement? That's something the boy has to do as part of the wolf badge anyway:

 

4E, Talk with your family members. Agree on the household jobs you will be responsible for. Make a list of your jobs and mark off when you have finished them. Do this for one month.

 

Looks like a bunch of busy work when you really sit and look at it.

 

[denleader09]

I wish that they would drop the "Choose to Refuse" booklet from the Fitness req. of Webelos. I felt it was geared to older boys. It talks mentions date rape drugs and hard core drugs. Great for middle school by 9/10 years old... I was a little uncomfortable with it. I had a nurse come in who discussed prescription drugs and huffing which we felt were more likely to come into a fourth grade boy's life. So I wish the drug info was more revelent to that age. But I am old fashioned, so I could be wrong.

 

I agree that the required belt loops for Activity Pins be in the handbook. I also wish that Fitness and Citizen were pushed back a bit or structured differently. I worked really hard to make it fun, but it was hard to do. I don't treat my den like a school room and I hated that it had that feel to it. I also wish Fitness was renamed Health as everyone mixes it up with Athlete.

 

I loved the Bear year and wouldn't change it. It seemed to prep us a little better for the choices of Webelos. Though it was a little more work for me to figure out the best way to calculate arrow points. In my next scout life, I will make the parents do more of the thinking on that, lol!

 

I think it would be great if there were some sort of suggested timeline on belt loops. For instance, the Citizen belt loop really could be left for Webelos (imo) or the Disabilities Awareness pairs well with Communicator. Just a suggestion list not a rigid list. In my next scout life, I would also review future ranks so I would know what to expect ahead.

 

With the new Cub Scout method, I feel it is a little too dry in the planning. To be fair, I don't use it as I had already planned out my webelos years (tentatively) and liked what I had scheduled. I just want my den to have fun doing all those corny, hands on activities while they are still young enough to appreciate it. And the new method seems rushed to me, though again, I don't follow it and could be wrong. Change is good, but sometimes it takes me a while to get on board.

 

Overall, I am happy with the program. I think the boys are learning a lot of values and skills while having fun.

 

 

[Nike]

I feel like the entire Cub program has become writing-centric. I would have requirements apportioned as 25% or less read&write, 25% experiment or make, and 50% or more go see or do outside.

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm with Nike, basically.

 

Less talk and more doing. More emphasis on outings.

[desertrat77]

More outdoors stuff overall.

 

One year Webelo program, all geared towards joining boy scouts.

 

Two years in Webelos? That's way too long.

[DeanRx]

Hopefully, Eagle92 is a pro at the council or higher level and has the ability to make these ideas known to national at some point.... silly to play "king for a day" if its just wishful thinking, but here goes....

 

1) Do away with Tiger Cub Year. REASON: Go-see-its are a pain to coordinate, and we expect the newbie leader to take on this task right out of the gate - this is intimadating to the new leader (it was to me a few years ago).

 

2) Less paperwork / poster work and more build useful things and do things outdoors. Look at how many of the requirements state "Draw a poster that x,y,z... and pressent it at a den our pack meeting..." why so we can have one more piece of useless cardboard to recycle?

 

3) If you want to have go-see-its, make it part of the wolf or bear year.

 

4) Webelos should be ONE YEAR ONLY - ditto on the poster that said its bogus to require re-earning of beltloops for Web Acitivity Pins - NO other part of BSA advancement requires re-dos of things a scout has already completed (as far as I know of). It might state that camping for one merit badge doesn't count towards another, but ther is no repeating things already completed.

 

The main reason for dropping Tigers and condensing Webelos to 1 year is BURNOUT. For both adults and kids, its extremely hard to present a program that works for both 5-6 y/o 1st graders and 11-12 y/o 5th graders... WAY too much of a stretch.

 

I'd almost like to see the program divided into Cubs (2nd - 5th grade) , Jr. Souts (6th,7,8) and then Boy Scouts /High adventure for 9-12th grades.

 

There is a reason educators do NOT put 7th graders in with guys who are shaving, why does BSA do it? Its a very large spread to provide quality program to all at all times.

 

My 2 cents-

 

Dean

 

[Eagle92]

Dean,

 

Like Lord Vader at the end of Ep. VI Return of the Jedi, I've turned to the Light Side and am a volunteer again.

 

 

But one of the folks on the committee is very big on the CS side of things locally, and I think he is getting some attention from region and national. Plus the SE made the comment that CS needs more activity.

 

Please keep the ideas coming.

[dkurtenbach]

1. Eliminate the ridiculous discrepancy between Electives for Wolf rank and Electives for Bear rank. It is as if someone with a grudge against Den Leaders was going out of their way to make Cub Scouts as unnecessarily complicated as possible.

 

2. As others have stated, less talk -- more action. I offer as Exhibit A the Webelos Fitness activity badge, the requirements of which (other than the Character Connections requirement) read:

 

--------------------

And do six of these:

2. With a parent or other adult family member complete a safety notebook, which is discussed in the booklet "How to Protect Your Children from Child Abuse " that comes with this book.

3. Read the meal planning information in this chapter. With a parent or other family member, plan a week of meals. Explain what kinds of meals are best for you and why.

4. Keep a record of your daily meals and snacks for a week. Decide whether you have been eating foods that are good for you.

5. Tell an adult member of your family about the bad effects smoking or chewing tobacco would have on your body.

6. Tell an adult member of your family four reasons why you should not use alcohol and how it could affect you.

7. Tell an adult member of your family what drugs could do to your body and how they would affect your ability to think clearly.

8. Read the booklet Choose to Refuse! Discuss it with an adult and show that you understand the material.

--------------------

 

Thus, all of the requirements for the Fitness activity badge can be done from the comfort of the Scout's couch, during TV commercials and breaks from video games. And really, "Decide whether you have been eating foods that are good for you"? Huh?

 

3. Eliminate the name "Webelos" because it is made up, the phrase it is an acronym for now ("We'll be Loyal Scouts") has no particular significance to the actual Webelos program, and the name is frequently misused ("Webelo").

 

4. Take the Boy Scout material out of the advancement requirements for Webelos Scout and Arrow of Light. After eliminating the "Webelos" name, just have one rank for 4th/5th graders, Arrow of Light. For those boys who _want_ to learn about Boy Scouting, they can earn the "Scout" badge by completing the Boy Scout joining requirements.

 

5. Elimate the compass patch and compass points in Webelos Scout advancement. The Scouts can already wear the pins for the activity badges they earn -- they don't need a second item on their uniform that also indicates how many activity badges they have earned.

[Eagledad]

//I'd almost like to see the program divided into Cubs (2nd - 5th grade) , Jr. Souts (6th,7,8) and then Boy Scouts /High adventure for 9-12th grades. //

 

I agree with all your suggestions Dean, but the suggestion above is one I have not heard before and Is worth considering. I would first like to see the results of just removing tigers, but consider something like your idea if the Webelos program still struggles after few years. Good post.

 

Barry

[Eagle92]

'Dad,

 

2nd-5th grades was how the CS program was when I became a CS. National came out with Tiger Cubs, which was a separate program from Cub Scouts, but associated with a pack the same year I was finally old enough to be a CS. Packs didn't have to have TCs affiliated with them, they had their own motto, promise, and law, and when you finished the program in May, you received a square 3" Tiger Cub Graduate patch as a temp emb. Later it became a Tiger Cub Strip worn under the right pocket.

 

3rd grade was when CS formally began as a Wolf, 4th was Bear, and 5th was Webelos. That's how LDS units still do things.

 

I think dropping the age came about b/c GS started in 1st, but don't quote me on it.

[watchoverya]

Good work, Scouters! Keep it up. This discussion is definitely being watched by someone at National and shared with a group of volunteers working on Cub Scout structure as part of our new National Strategic Plan.

 

Someone at National.

[AKdenldr]

Okay National,

 

How about this for an idea -- nothing that absolutely relies completely on the parent with no other mechanism for the boy to get it done. Sometimes very hard for den leader to get an active boy the recognition he deserves when the parent won't do the tiny little thing they needed to do with their son. For example Webelos requirement number 1. (read the parent section of the book and sign off). Darn it, 8 months later they still haven't signed the book -- Have they read the section? I don't know and I have to chase down on those signatures.

 

Thanks for asking,

-- AK