Webelos Transition to Boy Scouts

[Lodge 489]

At a council training event we attended a seminar on Webelos Transition. One of the topics that came up is that once the boy earns his Arrow of Light Award he is eligible at that time to enter Boy Scouts. We told the instructor that our understanding was that the boy had to be at least 11 years old and in the 5th grade.

 

He said that was not the case - that as long as the boy earned his AOL award he can cross over immediately. He said that his Pack only has a one year Webelos program for fourth graders and they have been crossing over boys who are still in the fourth grade and were just 10 years old.

 

He referred us to the BSA website where it clearly stated, "A Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has now completed all the requirements for the Scout badge and may join a Boy Scout troop."

 

He said that his unit has been doing this for many years and obviously it has to be OK or that BSA would not allow them to do it.

 

I'm assuming that this must be true but I had never heard of it before as most every Pack we come into contact with has a Webelos 1 and a Webelos 2 Den. He said that quite a few units are moving to having only one Webelos Den and transitioning the boys over to BSA quicker as research shows that the sooner that they get into Boy Scouts, the better the odds are they will earn their Eagle.

 

Any thoughts or feedback would be much appreciated.

[EagleBeaver]

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/28-406.pdf - the BSA youth application says:

Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18.

 

A 10 year old 4th grader that earned the Arrow of Light can join a troop.

 

All the packs in our community have Webelos cross-over in Feb. of their 5th grade year. I've not had a 4th grader request to join our troop.

[Scoutfish]

From www.scouting.org :

 

 

1.Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.

 

 

So it depends.

 

Figuring that the "norm" is that most Webelos I boys are nine and that most Webelos II boys are ten..AND that usually ( but not only!), Webelos earn their AOL in the second year of Webelos ...then it's commonplace that most 2nd year Webelos are at lest 10 years old and have their AOL.

 

It's really a matter of BSA wording it different.

 

Instead of saying: "or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old"

BSA should have said: " Be ten years old AND have earned the Arrow of light Award."

 

As for the part that says: "A Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has now completed all the requirements for the Scout badge and may join a Boy Scout troop." ...ws it a unit site or was it possibly a district or council site?

 

Because the quote, while sounding good is actually flawed. A Webelos scout who theoretically with his DL rushed the program, would not be elligible for AOL until after he had finished 4th grade because he has to be "Active as a Webelos for AT LEAST 6 months after finishing 4th grade."

 

Maybe council makes exceptions for a scout who fails 4th grade and is in it a second time? Don't know, but it would be an exception, not routine.

[moosetracker]

I am no cub leader, so this is more a question then a statement.

 

If a Tiger 1st, Wolf 2nd, Bear 3rd, Webeloes 4th.. Right? So if a scout goes into Webeloes I at the begining of 4th grade, at the end of the year, they will have been a Webeloes for more the 6 months, correct?? To me sounds like the SM completes a year in Webeloes but skips Webeloes II June - Feb or March..

 

It is rushing and cutting out the program as it is designed, but seems like the grades would be ok..

 

Also if a boy failed the 4th grade, he would have been in 4th grade while in Webeloes through his Webeloes I & in 4th again through his webeloes II, so he would be Webeloes for over 18 months..

 

Even in my sons situation, he repeated 2nd grade, but continued cub scouts with his original Den.. Webeloes I he was 3rd grade. Webeloes II he was 4th grade, but was a Webeloes between June thru March 8 or 9 months.. (he was also young, probably 10 when he crossed over.)

 

I know he was not recommended age or grade, but this was 10 years ago (he is now 20). I was told the loophole that let him in based totally on his AOL, was in place then, but had been changed since.

 

So, I would assume the site the quote he showed you that states

 

"A Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has now completed all the requirements for the Scout badge and may join a Boy Scout troop."

 

 

May simply be outdated information.

 

Still, it also implies that the computers that BSA uses is not catching this error either.. (Will wonders never cease!)

[Scoutfish]

AOL eequirements say must be active 6 months after finishing 4th grade to earn AOL. So in that regard, if he's still in fourth grade ( for the 1st time), he can't earn AOL.

If he;s repeating fouth grade, well, then you have an odd situation where age grouping doesn't match grade grouping.

 

At this point, there may be some secondary , yet lesser known protocol.

 

 

But as with many things, organazations have the right to change rules as they se fit!

[ScoutNut]

The correct requirement to have earned Arrow of Light as a 4th grader is -

 

"Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge."

 

So a 4th grader who is 10.5 years old can indeed earn his AOL and cross to a Boy Scout Troop.

 

As for Webelos being only a 1 year program, there is a provision for a 1 year program in the Webelos Leader Guide.

 

The LDS church has always run their Webelos program for only 1 year. All of their Scouts move to new levels based on their age. Boys become Webelos at 10 years old, and when they turn 11, they move into a Boy Scout program for 11 year olds.

 

[Lodge 489]

So, I would assume the site the quote he showed you that states

 

"A Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has now completed all the requirements for the Scout badge and may join a Boy Scout troop."

 

May simply be outdated information.

_________________________

 

No, it's from the current official BSA website. It's titled "Improved Webelos Transition" and this is the program that they covered with us. Like one of the above posts states, they told us that all the LDS Packs have only a one year Webelos program and that is what they're now recommending that we all implement if possible because of their success with it.

 

Here's the link to the info and it's the fourth paragraph:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/ImprovedWebelosTransition.aspx

[ScoutNut]

Nowhere on that link (which is not new by the way) does it state that BSA recommends that the Webelos program be only 1 year long.

 

LDS Boy Scout Troops take 11 year old boys, not 10 year olds (or even 10.5 year olds).

 

If a Scout has met all of the Boy Scout joining requirements, then yes, he can join a Boy Scout Troop. However, if he is still in 4th grade, he must have been a Webelos Cub Scout for 6 months since turning 10 years old in order to earn the AOL. The requirements for earning AOL have not changed. Neither have the Boy Scout joining requirements.

 

However, if someone at your council, or in specific units, are manipulating requirements, that is their call, but it is NOT a BSA National recommendation.

[moosetracker]

You stated "Council Training event". Was it something like Scouting University where people put on programs based on various personal insight? Hopefully so rather then something like Cub Scout Specifics, which is to follow a syllabus so that your personal "insights" are not part of the program.

[perdidochas]

A Webelo can't earn the Arrow of Light in 4th Grade.

 

Here is the First requirement of AOL:

 

Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

[bbender]

Or, actually, a Webelo can't earn the Arrow of Light in 4th Grade, unless he is active in his Webelos den for at least least six months since becoming 10 years old, and earn the Webelos badge.

 

So a 4th Grader who turned 10 years old at least 6 months before completing 4th Grade could earn the AoL . . .

 

[bear dad]

ScoutNut states;

If a Scout has met all of the Boy Scout joining requirements, then yes, he can join a Boy Scout Troop. However, if he is still in 4th grade, he must have been a Webelos Cub Scout for 6 months since turning 10 years old in order to earn the AOL. The requirements for earning AOL have not changed. Neither have the Boy Scout joining requirements

 

This is correct info, don't know why people are not missing some of the info?

My son who will be 10 this month by summer he will 10 1/2 and will have all requirements done for his AOL. NOT only that he will be done 4th grade. Wheter he chooses to stay with pack till? or go to troop somewhere it will be his choice.

 

Think people are not looking fully at wording of the requirements.

[AKdenldr]

Scoutnut and Bear Dad have it correct.

 

I have 2 in my den of 8 that could bridge Feb and May of 4th grade.

 

My older son's den could have all bridged during 4th grade.

 

Depends when kid enters Kinderguarden. Here the cut off is August 15th. Boys with summer birthdates who are held by parents and enter school a year later (common in our community) and boys with late summer to December birthdates all could earn AOL and bridge during 4th grade. Depends on den program and parental interest of course.

 

Now, if it is a good idea ..... depends on boy / troop.

 

I think perhaps the only place this is clearly written is in Web handbook, not scouting handbook?

[Hawkrod]

I see this come up a lot and the BSA does have a plan and program in place for transition. One of the more useful tools is http://www.scouting.org/filestore/CubScoutMeetingGuide/PDF/Appendix/511-807.pdf which shows parents and leaders the BSA plan. The first time I saw this was at a Philmont class about transition and retention for Boy Scouts and the person conducting the program (a national person) explained that early bridging led to loss of retention. Unfortunately I did not see any documentation of this but in my own experience that has been true. I do believe that Webelos should be an 18- 20 month program to allow the boys to fully learn the material and experience the program. I will also add that the LDS program is very different and comparing it to a community program is not really possible. The LDS do not have Tigers and as noted there are no 10 year old Boy Scouts and the 11 year old Scouts do not join the Troop as such, they join the 11 year old Scouts (it is an entirely seperate program within the Troop in the units I deal with). The reality is that even most 10 1/2 year olds with AOL are not mature enough to interact with 16 and 17 year old boys in a truly meaningful way and I think that early bridging can cause a loss of esteem and thus failure (keep in mind that these boys are at the top of their game in Cubs, they are the big fish and they are about to become minnows again!). This will not always happen but early bridging probably should be the exception rather than the norm. Bridging just before summer at B&G or soon thereafter allows the boy to get his feet on the ground and work for 1st class at summer camp. JMO(This message has been edited by Hawkrod)

[Lodge 489]

perdidochas; Prior to ever starting his fourth grade school year a boy would have already been a Webelos since the day after his last school day as a third grader. Most boys turn 10 years old while they are in the fourth grade - some toward the beginning and some later. So, if a boy turns 10 in October of his fourth grade school year, then six months later he would be eligible for his Arrow of Light award. That would be in the month of April and he would still be in the fourth grade. Also, if I read it right, the requirement that you quoted is not a "this AND that" requirement - it's a "this OR that" requirement. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

 

Again, I'm just asking for feedback on this matter because it was something new to us, and I thank everyone for their input. I don't think that this is just a one person renegade program that some pack is running in our council as there were quite a few people from different councils in attendance who said that they had implemented this.(This message has been edited by Lodge 489)