Does the Webelos program really prepare them?

[sctmom]

Having been on both sides of the crossover bridge, I am not convinced that the Webelos program is doing what it should.

 

1. The Webelos Activity badges are taught in den meetings. That is so different than the way troop should work.

 

2. A boy can earn his Arrow of Light without having ever camped (he can just go on a day hike and there are lots of definitions for "day hike").

 

3. Meetings are still run completely by adults. Decisions are still made by adults.

 

What do you think?

 

[ScoutParent]

The transition went well for my group. We were actually gaining members as 2nd year Webelos. The way we did it in our Pack was each year the 1st and 2nd year Webelos went Winter Camping. If there was room we invited the younger boys, going in order of rank if more signed up than we had spaces for. The 2nd year Webelos leaders planned the weekend for the 1st year Webelos. When it was our turn to plan, I got the ideas from the boys and then presented them at the committee meeting. They planned all the meals and I simply conveyed that information as well. I also encouraged them to plan the meetings for us and they planned their own parties too. We took turns with who was in charge throughout the year so they all had a chance to practice. They took it all very seriously and would just smile away when I explained that more would be expected out of them in BS and we were preparing for that. We did the majority of the work in our meetings but each year there were some that I listed as the family's responsiblity to work with their child on in order to earn. It seemed to work well for us. The boys loved Pack Mtgs and the opportunity to get at the mike and tell what they did throughout the month (We divided it and they each covered a topic from Tigers on), to showcase their crafts they had made or skills they had learned, 50% of my original den are now Life Scout with time enough to make Eagle if that is their goal.

[ScoutParent]

Can't believe I forgot this part, they would be very disappointed in me--they won the firestarting competition when they went on a camp out with the BS Troop! I didn't go with them (the troop preferred all dads which was ok with me). They were sooooo proud. Of course, so was I.

[Bob White]

I have to disagree with you scoutmom,

 

1. Boy Scouts learn in a patrol, Similar to a den but boy run.

 

2. A boy scout can earn the Life rank spending a total of just 3 nights outdoors.

 

3. Meetings need not be run strictly by adults you can use a Den Chief or a Webelos Scout to help teach others. Most decisions are still made by adults because Webelos is still Cub Scouting.

 

Bob White

[Twocubdad]

A very timely question in that I took Webelos Outdoor Training this weekend and just walked in the door from our den -- er, patrol -- meeting which was spent tying knots and learning to set up tents.

 

The other Webelos leader in our Pack is also an ASM with the Scout troop. He has the same complaint. We've made it a program focus for our Pack to better prepare our Webelos for Scout camping. We're going to spend extra time teaching camping skills in den meetings and are also planning one or two Webelos-only campouts.

 

While I think that's great, and the boy are really looking forward to it, I have to wonder if it's really the way it should work. I'm not really up to speed on the current Boy Scout program, in my day those were the skills you learned as a Tenderfoot, Second and First Class Scout. Is that not still the focus for these ranks? What about a kid who comes into a Troop with no Webelos experience?

[ScoutParent]

We earned Leatherman and Geologist during one weekend camp out. The BSA camp we went to had a demonstration/participation for the whittling chip at another. We went on hikes, cooked on fires the kids built themselves, cooked on buddy burners, had campfire fun at night, it was a great time! The simplest things please boys of cub scout age so easily it's truly a pleasure always.

[Bob White]

Cub scout camping, including Webelos, is not meant to be like Boy Scout camping. It is not to have the adventure or the skill level training of Boy Scouting. For instance Webelos are not to go pack packing. The should not use backpack stoves, or substitute Boy Scout camping skills for the skills in the Webelos handbook. It is still a easier family camp type experience.

 

One of the main reasons for this is most Webelos leaders do not have the necessary training to safely do these activities. The other reason is you are not enhancing their Webelos experience, you are diluting their Boy Scouting experience. Everything happens in it's own time based on the ages and stages of the scout.

 

What Webelos is supposed to do is wet their appetite for the troop experience not BE a troop experience. Webelos should prepare a boy to earn his Scout Badge at his first meeting not his Tenderfoot Rank.

 

A better plan would be to follow the program outlined in the Webelos handbook. Let The Troop teach him about Boy Scouting. Often times the Den Leader's anticipation to be a Boy Scout is ahead of the Webelos development and abilities.

 

Bob White

[eisely]

I have to agree with Bob White. I never thought of Webelos as preparatory for boy scouts. It is its own program and should be run for fun. The extent to which the boys can influence the program through planning and direct participation, the better. But it still should not be looked as a kind of kindergarten for boy scouts.

[ScoutParent]

A parent or guardian was required to accompany each scout to winter camp. There was lots of down time for tag, playing in the snow, climbing the hill by the cabin, etc. Breakfast and dinner were cooked by a "camp cook" and lunches were prepared by the boys under parental supervision.

 

We also had a summer camping trip that was a family trip as a pack. Each family was responsible for their own tent, food etc.

 

The other type of camping we did was a lock-in at a local hands on science center. There they worked on engineering and another one I can't recall this moment.

 

 

 

[ScoutParent]

As the senior level of cub scouting, Webelos are to be involved in more advanced activities than the younger scouts. While it is a fun program they are beginning to learn skills that they will build on in BSA. It is considered a transitory time when they are preparing for the boy scouting experience and need to start learning how to do that. The parents no longer can sign off on badges. The badges are expected to be earned in meetings and on their own; getting them ready to accept the responsiblity of BSA. They begin to take part in troop activities and meetings. It's an exciting time for the boys and for the leaders.

[sst3rd]

What would inhance the Webolos program, would that there always be a Den Chief from the associated Troop working with these Scouts and their leaders. This would allow the gradual introduction of a "boy" lead Troop/Patrol program. I realize that Webolos Den Chiefs aren't their Patrol Leaders, but it introduces the youth leader concept.

 

This being said, the biggest complaint I get from graduating Webolos, is that they don't like the older Scouts telling them what to do. Obviously, if the youth leaders are trained in how to lead, all is well. But to some kids, it just doesn't matter. They don't like anyone telling them what to do. This continues to be a growing problem with our graduates from the Pack. From parent/adult lead, to youth lead, it's a big change that some boys just don't like. To them, it's bullying.

[sctmom]

Den Chiefs are impossible to come by around here.

 

If you follow the Webelos plan as laid out by BSA, Webelos do not choose what badges they work on. Then in Boy Scouts they are to pick merit badges to work on.

 

Maybe a lot of the problem is more on the troop side as we have discussed over and over.

 

What I have seen in packs and troops around here is that one day the adults are in completely in charge and making the decisions. Then the next day (Boy Scouts) the adults don't want to see you and are yelling at you to get out of their area.

 

[evmori]

sctmom,

It's sort of like going from middle school to high school. When kids move to a higher level they are expected to do more on their own. This can be tough for some kids. Scouting is no different. Cub Scouts is run by the adults while giving the boys a sense of working together as a group. Boy Scouts is run by the boys with the adults as advisors. They still work together as a group but the main difference is they get to make their own decisions. They learn by making mistakes. The fun element is still their but what isn't is the adults planning the entire program.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

What you are describing scoutmom is not a problem with the Webelos or Boy scout Program but what happens when a scout goes from a cub program to a bad troop.

 

A troop that uses the New scout Patrol gives scouts a year of buffering to transition from an adult lead program to a boy lead program. A properly trained and lead troop does not have boys bossing boys around.

 

You started asking what is wrong with the Webelos program. What you are really asking is why doesn't your local troop follow the Boy Scout program.

 

Bob White

[sctmom]

Bob, I think you are right. I keep going in circles on that I guess and I keep ending up at the same place.

 

I'm going to be a Bear Den Leader. I hope to convince and train some of the parents to take over for the Webelos program. If I end up as a Webelos leader again or if I train someone else to do it, I want to do the best job possible.

 

With this Bear den (3rd graders) I am going to implement the plan of having a denner. I'm going to give them some choices of what they want to do in meetings. I think that will get them started down the road to independence and keep them interested. The denner and den chief are not something pushed in our pack.

 

I thought I would start by giving the boys a short list of activities and have them vote on which to do first. Activities like hiking, outdoor cooking, sports & physical fitness, woodcraft, wildlife, and art.