Leader refuses to use immediate recognition beeds

[OldSchool Scout]

We have a den leader that refuses to use immediate recognition beads and totems. Stating that they alredy recieve enough awards. He has also openly stated that he doesn't bother teaching the boys the history of scouting. What can done? It seems that the scouts are being short changed.

[clemlaw]

I'm a TDL, and if I had it to do over again, I don't think I would bother with the beads. It's a pain for the leader to keep track of them and hand them out. It's a pain for the parents to put on the beads (I gave up trying to do it for 11 kids). And it's a pain for the parents to remove the thing to wash the shirt.

 

I guess the Tigers get a little bit of enjoyment from receiving them. But if they didn't know they existed in the first place, they wouldn't miss them. And besides, "they already receive enough awards."

 

As for "teaching" the history of scouting, is there some achievement for their rank advancement that requires this? If not, I don't think they have any obligation to "teach" it, or even acknowledge it.

 

There's nothing in the Tiger requirements about the history of scouting. We've talked about it in my den because I wanted to, and the kids enjoyed it. But I'm sure that other den leaders have never mentioned it, and as long as they're having fun doing other things, I don't think that's a problem.

 

As far as I know, the instant recognition emblems are sold over the counter at the Scout shop. So if some parent thinks their son really needs one, there's nothing stopping them from getting it on their own. And there's no reason why either parents or pack leaders can't talk about the history of scouting at home and/or pack meetings.

 

If the den leader is otherwise doing a good job, I would say that those shortcomings are pretty trivial.

[UCEagle72]

"Immediate recognition beads" are really a modern innovation in the Cub Scout program ... and I really don't remember being taught anything about "scouting history" until I became a Tenderfoot, and then read the legend about Boyce and the London fog.

 

So ... I'm not sure what the problem is here.

 

A DL should be able to run his or her den as they see fit. Unless the DL is doing something in direct violation of the G2SS or YP.

 

As long as the den is active, young men are advancing, and they are having fun, then the CS program is being delivered.

 

[ScoutNut]

Immediate recognition is one of the main principals in Cub Scouting. Getting those Cubbies all the bling possible, as soon as possible, is also why the Cub Scout program was changed this year from home based to den based for working on requirements. BSA feels that the bling keeps the Cubbies interested. Hopefully long enough to transition to the Boy Scout program.

 

That said, you can't really force a den leader to utilize beads and totems on their own. Bottom line, if a den leader is providing a good program to the Scouts in their den, and they are earning their various rank, and elective awards each year, there is no problem.

 

If your Pack truly wants to insure that immediate recognition totems/beads are used by all dens, then your Pack should consider purchasing them, and presenting them, themselves. My Pack includes presentation of totems and beads with the monthly award presentations at Pack meetings. It works well for us.

 

If the leaders do not want to be bothered keeping track of beads earned, then your Pack should consider getting some kind of Pack management system (ScoutManage, PackMaster, etc). This will help to streamline all aspects of advancement reporting, and Pack management.

 

Your Pack can also incorporate teaching Scouting history at Pack meetings. The Blue and Gold celebration is perfect for this.

 

 

[acco40]

With my 20 plus years of experience in Scouting and on these forums I've learned that there are two camps of folks.

 

Camp one - lets follow the BSA program the best we can.

 

Camp two - the BSA program is just a suggestion and I'll do what I think is best (not use immediate recognition beads, put parents on BORs, inject maturity requirements, etc.).

 

Camp #2 seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. I tend to fall into Camp #1 which is why my participation in Scouting is diminishing.

[clemlaw]

I don't think we have BOR's in Cub Scouts, so I guess I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion. If your pack is using BOR's (with or without parents), then it seems to me that puts you pretty squarely into Camp #2.

 

But I wasn't aware that the beads were a required part of the program for Wolf and above, so thanks for enlightening me. For future reference, could you give me a link to the BSA document specifying this so that we can follow this part of the program the best we can?

[Eagle92]

Kids want the recognition, for the most part at least as you do have a few odd oens out there, so what is up with the leader? Is is problems with the kits?

 

Yeah I noticed the immediate recognitions kits are a little stiffer and harder to put on then when I was a Cub. Also notices the lascing is more of a pain to use too.

 

To make it easier to put on and off, I drilled new holes in the piece, and problem was solved. Tried differnt knots and ways of securing the TC beads, and gave up. I went ahead and used some leather thong and then the problem was solved.

 

Now some kids like the bling. Mine prefers to wear last year's CSDC patch with the pirate ship on it. Esp since I showed him how the council took that design, and used it for Jambo CSPs this year.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[ADCinNC]

Wolf Cub Scout (Second grade or age 8). The trail

to the rank of Wolf Cub Scout is more challenging

with 12 achievements, each with multiple tasks.

Achievements include more physical activity in

Feats of Skill, learning about safety in Know Your

Home and Community and reacting to various

situations in Making Choices.

When the Scout completes his first three achievements,

hell be presented with the Progress Toward

Ranks badge to wear on his uniform. A gold bead

is awarded to wear on the badge for every three

additional achievements. After the fourth gold

bead, he earns his Wolf badge.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34581.pdf

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Leaders/DenLeaderResources/DenandPackMeetingResourceGuide/HelpfulHints.aspx

 

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

I'm a TDL and the beads are part of the Tiger program and it records their progress toward the Tiger Badge. The Tiger Handbook is clear on presenting beads to the Tigers. I report them to our Advancement Chair the beads they have earned so they can be presented to them at the Pack Meetings.

 

It's not rocket science to keep up with the Tigers progress. The Adult Partners are Akela and able to sign off on achievements and they typically know what their son has done from the book. I do believe it is the DL's job to keep track of Tiger progress. How they do it is their business, but their job just the same.

 

The excuse that Tigers "receive enough awards" is a subjective opinion and not based on the Tiger program as it's delivered and described in the Tiger Handbook.

[83Eagle]

The OP doesn't state what his position is in the Pack, which has some bearing on "what can be done." If you are a CM or similar, I might ask the DL what he thinks the boys would say if asked if they feel they are receiving "enough awards" or if they would like a token of their progress?

 

Second, what do the parents say? They are reading the books and seeing the info about the beads as well. Since the Tiger Cubs are supposed to be a parent-run program, the parents should have an involvement in this decision. Also, ideally the TDL should come from the parent ranks as well so I'm curious why a leader would not want to do this--unless you're dealing with an instantiated TDL leader which isn't really the best way, in my experience.

 

I will say that by the time they are Bears, many of the boys have lost interest in the totems (although we still award them) in favor of putting temporary patches on the right pocket.

 

But having seen enough beaming faces of Tigers receiving progress beads, it's an easy and relatively inexpensive way to build excitement about the program. Why wouldn't anyone want to do that?

 

 

[perdidochas]

My general feeling is that parents like the beads, the kids don't care. They want beltloops and badges, not beads.

[perdidochas]

To add to that, kids want to do interesting things more than they want the recognition from it. IMHO, too much recognition takes away the value of being recognized. If the DL is keeping the kids interested and active, the rest is gravy.

[OldSchool Scout]

perdidochas you wrote

My general feeling is that parents like the beads, the kids don't care. They want beltloops and badges, not beads

 

I cannot disagree more. I had a couple of boys come into the den in late October.We got them caught up with Bobcat and enough requirments for their 1st bead as fast as we could, to see the look on thier faces you would have thought it was Xmas, just for a piece of plastic and a bead.I always make sure to present each bead in front of our den and have the scout tell the other boys what three requirements he finished to earn the bead.

 

 

[clemlaw]

Well, from the material quoted above, I was obviously mistaken. I was under the impression that they were "required" for Tigers, but not for the higher ranks. I assumed that the den in the OP was a higher level, but I guess that was just an assumption on my part.

 

I award them at Den meetings, but my observation is that it's not that big a deal for the kids. They have more fun actually doing the stuff, rather than getting the beads. Obviously, others have a different experience.

 

I still think that as far as infractions go, it's a pretty minor one.

 

If the original poster is the CM, can't you just award them at a Pack meeting? That's not "immediate", so it's not following the program. But if an otherwise good den leader is, for whatever reason, failing to hand them out at den meetings, wouldn't that satisfy those who really want the beads?

[OldSchool Scout]

Thanks for all the input. I think my problem is that I'm definitly part of the 'lets follow the BSA program the best we can' group.Why be part of a group when you don't care to use the program they offer and don't care to take pride in the history of the group.