Bobcat Den

[83Eagle]

I guess we're just a bunch of nattering nabobs of negativism.

 

In all seriousness, from a "newbie" perspective, I do see a LOT of negativism in here. (Dangit, there I go shouting again.)

 

For instance, I see this topic come up, and my first thought is, "Gee, that's interesting! I had considered spring recruiting but others I talked to had problems with it. Well, you say this works well for your Pack. I wonder how that works for you? Maybe this is something we can use too!"

 

Whereas the attitude of others seems to be, "Hey, we've been around here a while, so let me tell you why this won't work." This particular thread is just one example. There are others. The "omelet in a bag" one, for instance. Someone has an idea that works, and it gets slammed as not being "real cooking," or something to that effect. And this is all constructive...how?

 

Maybe after a few years in the forums and a few thousand posts, folks just get a little jaded. Who knows...

 

What I do know is that I am going to be very reluctant to share any ideas about what works for our Pack!

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Well, one thing I try to remember is this: We can not hear each others tone of voice...which also means that we can't always tell a little bit of good natured joking from a little bit of good natured sarcasm from regular sarcasm or even somebody being down right mean.

 

Know what I mean? I can sometimes be talking to a friend and say a pretty hateful thing or two, but when my friend sees me..he sees that flicker in my eye and the smile at the corner of my mouth..then we both bust out laughing becaise he knows there was absolutely no hate whatsoever in that hateful thing I said.

 

You ever tell a freind your gonna kill them after they prank you? Even when you were youinger? Didn't mean it one bit did you. Nah, just all fun and games. Of course, I would hope nobody actually said that on here though......

 

I learned something once from a great guy that I only knew from a NASCAR forum:

 

Sometimes how you read something is more of a reflection of yourself than the writer. No, not always, but it's hard to know when it is and when it's not.

 

And me personally, I don't yell, I capitalize for EMPHASIS on a particualr word or thought!

[clemlaw]

>>In all seriousness, from a "newbie" perspective, I do see a LOT of negativism in here. (Dangit, there I go shouting again.)

[ScoutNut]

Hey 83, or should i say - hey 83?

 

if you can come on over and convince my 'puter to play nice with the "format this post" button, i would be perfectly happy to stop using caps for formatting purposes.

 

just like some folks do not read anything past the first page of a document, or anything at all with a staple in it (true story), some folks just do not read complete sentences. for them i feel a bit of formatting is helpful. it also acts to replace tonal emphasis which we can not get online.

 

in your case, you are quite loudly, for a non caps user, stating how horrible we all are because we are being so negative to the op. yet, as clemlaw has tried to point out to you, twice now, you also made a negative statement. i take it then that you are the only poster who is allowed to do so?

 

as for me, in your pounce list you quoted only the last part pf a sentence i wrote. did you not read the first part? i never unequivocally stated >>"you are denying them the chance to try and earn their rank award"

[SeattlePioneer]

I appreciate reading everyone's comments --- thank you.

 

 

I'm the district membership chair and Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, and got drawn into this pack because it was in a strategic position and was down to one Cub Scout. I was loathe to see it fail.

 

I've tried to revitalize the pack over the past two years with limited success.

 

A lot of parents are not willing to work on Cub Scout achievements with their boys. I have an excellent Tiger Cub Den leader this fall who went over all the Bobcat achievements except the #8 child abuse requirement and none of those boys have completed that last requirement.

 

The Bobcat den is a way of trying to get new parents and Cub Scouts started off in desireable ways. Most boys last spring did get their Bobcat award at the June campout.

 

The issue may be moot, since I have no one willing to be Committee Chair and I'm unwilling to accept a figurehead. After more than two years of hard work trying to make this pack work, there may be reasons why it was dying in the first place.

[Scoutfish]

I think it is rare that anybody actually means to say, or come off as sounding like they said: "That is absolutely a bad idea and will not work!"

 

We could write: "Hey, as long as it works for you....in your particular situation...with your specific circumstances - but I am of the opinion that it may not be the best way to go about 'X' ."

 

But that is a given isn't it? WE are all writing comments based on our personal experiences, situations, councils/districts, members of our units and possibly based on geolographic and climatic nature.

 

Wow, alot of writing, huh?

 

Seattle. As I said in my original comment- It is only my OWN OPINION - that I wouldn't do it.

 

And I'll be the very first to recognize I could be completely and totally wrong.

 

But here's my line of thinking...assuming you have a fall ( well around the start of school ) roundup.

 

If you have a roundup in the spring ( wich is a great idea, by the way) and the new boys are segregated into a single Bobcat den, what about the boys who join at the fall roundup? Do they go through the same seperation into a Bobcat den or are they just put into a regular den and having to catch up on Bobcat while the boys who advanced from the previous years rank start on regular rank activities?

 

See, although it doesn't alwys work out that way, I do try to see stuff from the scouts perspective. A scout who was a spring recruit may wonder why he was singled out for a bobcat den, but the fall boys were not.

 

Granted, the spring boy actually will get Bobcat sooner, but will feel like he was the one who was discriminated against. PLEASE realize that he may not know the word discriminate or what it means, but will have those feelings.

 

 

The thing most of us were pointing out about Bobcat is that...well, it can be done along side of the regular den activities.

 

But again, I will say this: If the system works for you, then have at it. Just try to remember the first time scout who is Bear or Webelos age , and is stuck in a den with a few Tigers until ( from his point of view) he passes his baby test.(Yes, I have heard it called that from scouts!)

[Basementdweller]

I understand everyone hear loves to hear their own voice, but read the original post.

 

 

 

Seattle, how long are the boys actually in the den?

 

If it isn't more than a couple three weeks, I think it is a great idea.

 

 

The boys are in the rank specific den before summer camp, so there is no issue in my opinion. Besides the are probably awarded the bobcat rank at the graduation camp out so they are not left out.

 

Another benefit is this prevents a well meaning den leader or parent from trying to complete the bear rank in a couple of weeks.

[kari_cardi]

I don't think the idea is a bad one at all. I'm not a fan of calling it the Bobcat den, though, since there is no official den for the Bobcat rank and boys are assigned to dens by grade/age, not earned rank. I'd probably call it Cub Scout Orientation or something like that.

 

For requirement #8, in our pack we assign the requirement and assume that the parents do it with the boys. Some will, some won't, we know that. But IMO how and when to discuss sexual and other abuse with children is a parental decision, and BSA recognizes that by making it a family requirement.

 

I agree that this message board is quick to jump on people and can feel very negative. I was warned of this when first referred and my initial experience was of the same. I was even schooled how how to post on message boards, which I found laughable since I have been posting and even moderating on many and varied message boards for over 7 years. But each board has its own culture, and while this one can seem negative, for the most part the members are dedicated scouter volunteers who want what is best for the kids and the program. So I look past the brusque delivery to find the good, reliable information I am looking for.

 

SeattlePioneer, it is clear to me that you are a dedicated scouter who is working hard to do the right thing, and I appreciate that. I hope your pack works out.

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Oh, I'm not put off by people's remarks about an idea that is, after all, not found in the book.

 

As District Membership Chair and Cub Roundtable Commissioner, I work closely with the district executive and other district officer and volunteers. None of them have raised objections to a Bobcat Den.

 

I've been aiming to build up this pack from a single boy that was there when we did our fall recruiting night two years ago. I worked on starting a Tiger Cub Den two years ago, then adding dens in subsequent years as those boys grew and now we have an excellent Tiger Cub Den Leader and Bear Den Leader, with a hole where the Wolf Den should be.

 

So the boys in the Bobcat Den were relatively homogenius in age. New boys who would be Bears or Webelos might indeed belong in their own dens rather than the Bobcat Den, but that's not a situation I've faced yet. Good point, though.

 

I've been nailed each year being a den leader for the weakest den when parents lack the talent or interest to step up. Forming the Bobcat Den in the spring gave me an opportunity to make Den Leaders out of parents since I couldn't do both.

 

While the Bobcat requirements can be minimized, they can be a robust program too if desired. Indeed, our recruiting night activity has a theme of "Do Your Best." Boys making and racing Raingutter Regatta boats, Pinewood Derby cars or stomp bottle rockets can understand and appreciate what doing your best means, and our recruiting night gives interested boys and their parents an opportunity to make a candle lit pledge to do their best in the future.

 

Other Bobcat requirements can be given more in depth treatment as well. The Bobcat requirements are the introduction to Cub Scout culture. Taking the time to give boys and parents a meaningful introduction to that culture is worth some extra time.

 

I have a Bobcat Handbook handout given to boys at our recruiting night which allows boys and parents to get started on Bobcat requirements right away, without having to buy a Scout handbook. I like to take advantage of the enthusiasm and interest kindled at a good recruiting night.

 

And at our June overnight camp, boys in the Bobcat den cross over into the regular dens along just as boys in existing dens cross over into the dens for their next year.

 

Regarding the difficulty of getting the sex abuse requirement completed --- I have left that to parents and have had difficulty getting parents motivated to complete it. The crossover ceremony and the promise of a special Bobcat Badge ceremony at the June campout helps motivate boys and parents.

 

In addition, our Scout Shop has a comic book style story that makes completing this requirement a matter of story telling between parents and boys --- I handed some of those out to parents hoping that would help get the requirement completed, but it hasn't.

 

I also understand a DVD is available that would make completing this requirement a matter of watching a video. That's probably my next step.

 

Anyway, no problem on the advice and comments people have made. I'm glad to get ideas from others. I have lots of ideas ---- GOOD ideas that WORK are a lot harder to come by!

 

Another reason for my work with this pack was to experiment with how weak packs can be saved and revived. As District Membership Chair, I've seen how a failed recruiting effort can gravely weaken a pack.

 

In addition, my opinion is that the most critical part of a recruiting effort can be getting new Tiger Cub Dens well started right away! Towards that end, I invited all new Tiger Cub Parents in the district to a Tiger Cub Den Leader Training in June, and then encouraged those parents to attend our Tiger Twilight summer "day" camp.

 

The idea here has been to give those new parents a good understanding of how the Tiger Cub Program works, and then to show them and their boys what it should look like and feel like at the Tiger Twilight camp. Those parents are then trained and experienced and should be able to get a fall Tiger Cub program started effectively!

 

That worked fine for the one parent (from my pack) who took part in that: he became my Tiger Cub Den Leader and has done an excellent job. The challenge this year is to get more pack leaders behind this to help get those new Tiger Cub parents involved in this process.

 

The DE and I will have that as part of our spring recruiting plan this year.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Thank you sasha for your good wishes.

 

 

Our schedule is:

 

May 9th Recruiting Night

 

May 16th Bobcat Den Meeting

 

May 21 Bobcat Den Outing

 

June 7th Bobcat Den Meeting

 

June 20 Bobcat Den Meeting

 

June 25-26 Campout and crossover (Bobcat Den dissolved)

 

 

Among my aims is to get new Cub Scouts off to an outing ASAP. The den meeting before the outing serves for sign up and to explain our expectations such as the buddy system and such.

 

That gives two additional den meetings which also need to prepared boys and families for the overnight camp.

 

So there is plenty for new Cub Scouts and parents to learn in those meetings.

 

 

Our summer activities include participating in a 4th of July Parade, Cub Scout daycamp in July and either a pack barbeque or participation in a district Cub Scout Camporee in August.

[MarinesWife]

I think this is a fabulous idea and one I'm going to use this year!

 

We do Spring Recruitment. It's in May and then we invite everyone to our May Pack Meeting. This past year we just folded the boys into their dens and they participated over the summer (only pack events) as they wanted. In September they began den meetings iwht their dens.

 

I think havinb a "Bobcat Den" for a few weeks after we do our recruitment is a great way for these boys to form new friendships, get to know some den leaders and the Cubmaster, and to really feel included.

 

I'm all over it. Thank you!

[83Eagle]

SeattlePioneer, what are you getting at your spring recruiting in terms of grades/ranks? Are you doing any "prerecruiting" for graduating kindergarteners? I know of another Pack that does the second so I'm trying to meld a couple of ideas here.

 

sasha: I agree that this message board is quick to jump on people and can feel very negative.

 

Yeah, I learned that fast and the hard way. I do have thick skin, but I don't care much for online bullying.

 

Also, there's all kinds of formatting for emphasis that can be used here, no special keyboard controls required, just a little effort.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

[83Eagle]

Hey, this newbie just discovered the "ignore user" feature. Well, that makes things a lot more enjoyable to read and cuts down on the sarcastic drivel one has to wade through.

 

You also see how many other users are ignoring a user that you ignore. Kinda interestin'...!

[SeattlePioneer]

Not as many new (kindergarten) Tiger Cubs as I would like. Mostly 1st graders and 2nd graders.

 

Last fall we used a Raingutter regatta using homemade boats to attract a crowd ---- and quite a crowd it was. This spring I'm anticipating making stomp bottle rockets to attract boys.

 

When you can hold out the rocket launcher and rocket at lunch for boys to inspect and say "How would you like to make a model rocket tonight and race it against your buddies to see whose goes the higest and farthest, you KNOW you are attarcting their interest!

 

By the way 83 Eagle, I see no one has you on ignore!