BSA Swimmer Teat

[clemlaw]

Actually, when I wrote my post above, I hadn't read the question very well, and I thought you meant passing the BSA test to be signed off as a swimmer, for purposes of going into the deep end at a BSA event.

 

I realize the test is the same, but if they're doing it _only_ to pass the requirement for the pin, I guess I would show a little bit of leaway. If the parents said that Junior had swum a hundred yards, then I guess I would take their word for it.

 

On the other hand, if they said merely that Junior was _able_ to swim a hundred yards, then that doesn't meet the requirement. He has to actually _do_ it. If they can't think of a specific time when he actually swam that approximate distance, then I would say that he hasn't passed yet.

 

For example, if there's a requirement that says he has to take a five-mile hike, this is not an academic exercise where someone determines that they are capable of walking five miles. They have to actually _do_ it.

[packsaddle]

As a moderator, I have sought the ability to make the topic title a bit more PC but, alas, have failed...to my udder sorrow.

[Stosh]

Or to make things easier, just have the troop policy that at summer camp all boys, regardless of age have to retake the swimmers' test. That way no one gets left out and if someone hedged on the test earlier, they will need to step up to the plate. The swimmer's test is not a one time deal, like Whitlin' Chip, it's an annual re-certification in our troop.

 

I had one boy, big, played football, etc. very athletic. He could pass the test as a first year scout, no problem but as he toned up his muscles and trimmed down, his body became less buoyant and by the time he Eagled, he could no longer pass the basic swim test.

 

Retest every year, better safe than sorry.

 

Stosh

[ScoutNut]

If your den/Pack does a pool activity then there should be at LEAST one, more is better, adult present who has taken Safe Swim Defense.

 

Any parent who states their son has completed the "swimmer pin" should be able to give you a signed note from someone (swim teacher, coach, lifeguard at neighborhood pool, etc) stating exactly what the Webelos did. Unless the Webelos den leader has specifically given the parent the ability to approve the requirements for Aquanaut a note from the parent stating the son did the requirements in the family pool would not cut it. Independant (not done at den meeting) Webelos work must be documented by the Webelos, and approved by the den leader.

 

If a Webelos is on a swim team getting their coach to sign off on the requirements for Aquanaut should be easy.

 

BTW - passing the BSA test for Swimmer is only one option, out of several, for Aquanaut. It is not required. The Webelos could be only be a Beginner, or have never taken a BSA swim test, and still complete the Aquanaut Activity Badge.

(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

[Basementdweller]

You should never take a parents word or scouts word on the swimming test. The boys life may depend on his ability to swim.

 

Had a group of 14 Webelos at summer camp. All but two said they could pass the swimming test easily. Time for the test.......4 boys passed it. It is a lot more physically demanding than just merely swimmming a single lap for a swim team. We did have several swim team members who did not pass.

 

Remember the wording in the test says "in a strong manner. " Most boys cannot perform at that level at 9 or 10 years old. they will in a couple of years, when they start putting on some muscle.

 

If they have to earn the aquanaut rent a pool and pay life guards to man it... or go to a public pool with lifeguards and do the swim. I am not willing to accept the personal liability for life guarding, I have taken safe swim defense and it is not a life guarding course. Those who are advising you it is ok are not correctly informed.

 

It is my experience that parents will more than a little bit, over state their sons ability.

[clemlaw]

>>>>Remember the wording in the test says "in a strong manner.

[DeanRx]

Just a couple points of clarification:

 

First, if you are talking about the BSA swim test as part of the Aquanaut pin for Webelos, then the DL is the one that signs off on Webelos rank advancement. As the den advancement person, if the DL says they passed it, then they passed it. However, just because a parent SAYS a kid did something does not mean the DL has to take their word for it. Unlike Tiger, Wolf, Bear - the Webelos program specifically states that the DL is the sign off authority for advancement.

 

Can the DL take the parent's word? Yes.

Should they? Maybe.

 

Second, if you are going to do this as a den activity at a local community pool, a private pool, or a lake, there are a couple of things that should / must be in place in accordance with G2SS.

 

1) You need at least ONE (preferably more) adult that has taken Safe Swim Defense. Its online and takes about 10 minutes to do - no big deal.

 

2) The bigger deal: You need to be swiming at a location that HAS certified lifeguards (BSA, Red Cross, or otherwise) OR have at LEAST one adult supervising the group that has current CPR certification ! This is true ANYTIME anything is done on or in the water with a group of scouts. Swimming, boating, etc - must have either safe swim defence or safety afloat (depending on the activity) and either a certified lifeguard OR an adult with current CPR cert.

 

Our Webelos Den completed aquanaut this past fall in a private backyard pool. I and one other leader both have safe swim defense, and I (plus another adult who is an EMT) both had current CPR certs at the time.

 

So, as long as you are covering your bases with the properly trained adults - it is up to the DL to sign off on the advancement.

[DeanRx]

Correction on my previous post-

 

I just looked up the G2SS online... you must have 1 adult CRP cert. for Safety Afloat. While not required for safe swim defense, it is RECOMMENDED that an adult be cert. in CPR.

 

Not sure if that is a recent change or if I thought you needed CPR for both activities b/c I took the two trainings at the same time.

 

Anyways - not quite sure WHY BSA would require it for watercraft use, but not for supervising boys that are actually swimming in the water?

[Basementdweller]

clem

 

the boys that failed ended up dog paddling the last lap. Strong manner means strong manner not dog paddling or treading water to rest.....remember most 10 year olds don't have 6 swimming strokes. They have one or two.

 

My son failed the first two years at camp....the second year it was the in a strong manner that got him.

 

to me it isn't ambiguous at all. Strong manner is pretty apparent. the kid who is all out of breath at the end of it after dog paddling the last 10 yards is not a strong manner. It falls to the physically fit thing.

 

The swim test helps our boys be safe in our pools. This is not something that should be short cutted to make the scout feel better.

 

So clem, would it make you feel better if the tester passed your son and then him drowning in a circumstance where, had he actually had the ability he could have saved himself.

 

 

This is one of the err on the side of caution.

[Eliza]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I TOTALLY agree with all the safety issues that have been brought up. Our pack hasn't done any water activities, and none are panned at this point. If we did, it would be in a pool with certified lifeguards. And, obviously, a swimmer test checked off for an Aquanaut pin means next to nothing, safety-wise. I took Baloo and now am a bit paranoid about safety.

[clemlaw]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I agree, I would have failed someone who did all or part with the dog paddle. I read "strong" to mean that it needs to be one of the "official" strokes the whole way, and done correctly the whole way.

 

I was just saying that he doesn't need to going full strength the entire distance. Swimming slowly, as long as he's doing it right, is still "strong" as far as I'm concerned.

 

It's ambiguous to me, because one way of being "strong" while swimming would be to swim fast. But IMHO, a kid shouldn't have to swim "fast" to pass the test. But he does have to swim well. And to me, swimming well means that he keeps up whatever "official" stroke he's using the full distance. If he gets out of synch, doesn't swim straight, isn't breathing when he's supposed to, etc., that wouldn't qualify as "strong" in my book. And it should probably be an automatic disqualification if he reverted to the dog paddle for any distance.

 

It sounds like we probably agree--I probably just didn't explain myself very well. I definitely agree on erring on the side of caution.

 

[Eliza]

Clem

 

What you are saying agrees with the way evals are done at our YMCA. Swimmers are expected to finish their required length in the form and pace that they began at. Doing a smooth freestyle for half the distance and then doing freestyle with stops to catch a breath don't cut it. Speed isn't as important as steadiness and consistency. A kid who does a sloppy, exhausted stroke, even if he/she gets to the end of the pool, won't make it to the next level of classes.

[clemlaw]

Yes, that's what I was getting at. I'm just not sure that "strong" is the best word to describe it.

 

The actual distance for the qualification is somewhat arbitrary. If a Scout passes the test, it should be obvious that he could keep swimming another hundred yards if he wanted. If there is any doubt about that, then he probably didn't pass. That's the way I interpret the word "strong", but I'm still not sure it's the right word.

[Basementdweller]

having watched a couple thousand swimming tests. Strong manner is obvious to me. You can tell with in a few strokes whether a young man is gonna do it or not. Now occasional you get a surprise.

 

 

 

[acco40]

I've heard of swimmer's ear - too much water logged time and infections set in.

 

But swimmer's teat? Is that something only female swimmer's get? Does it have anything to do with the fact that the water is too cold? :0