Webelos 2 and Scout at the same time?

[perdidochas]

We ran into a similar situation. My son has a late birthday, and we held him back in the 2nd grade. It was a good choice, just wish we had done it earlier. You have a choice to make. AOL or straight to Scouts. If he's enjoying Webelos, just let him do it. You can't do both. My son will have until the summer before his senior year to finish his Eagle. As he entered Scouts at a late age 11, he's got 6 yrs, 5 months from entering Scouts to get Eagle. That should be enough time.

 

Also, if you don't think the Den leader is doing enough, you should step up and become an assistant Den leader, or stop complaining. He/she's a volunteer, and if he need help, you should provide it (if it bothers you that much) or get him out of the Den (which is an option).

 

[moosetracker]

perd. You must have missed this comment by the OP.

despite my repeated efforts and offers to help him out

 

We have a SM like that.. Not good as a one man show, but everyone who has offered to help, can not help him either, he doesn't know how to delegate or trust in anyone. Also was geared toward his kids, but I think that calmed down once he got them past first class. Although he does prefer them to be the SPL and may do things at election time to give them an edge for the postition.

[perdidochas]

I think formally helping out (i.e. by signing up to be Assistant Den Leader) would help.

[Eagledad]

Yes, he can participate in Troop activities and still be a Webelos. I ran into this a lot with Packs who had full year programs for all their dens. He can't register in both unit, but if the unit leaders are willing, he can participate in both. Its kind of a hassle for the troop, but a lot of them do it all with Webelos Dens that want to start working with the troop even though they haven't had received their awards yet. If you want to try this, make sure everyone in both units understands whats going on so there isn't any slip ups like the troop turning in paperwork for the scout. Once a boy signs up for the troop, he can't receive any cub awards without going through a huge hassle.

 

Barry

 

[momof2cubs]

"I think formally helping out (i.e. by signing up to be Assistant Den Leader) would help."

 

It might be an option, and one my CM has suggested a couple of times. The thing is: I DO try to help as much as I can (for one). For two: my husband is the den leader of our other son's den (which means I help out there A LOT) AND I am also the Awards Chair for our pack. Not saying I couldn't do more, just saying my plate is pretty full. Yes, I know that there are plenty of people in Scouts that do lots more than that.

 

And also, I am very worried that a formal position will cause even more friction than there already is.

[GKlose]

My son was sort of in the same boat (except that we didn't hold him back -- his age fell just a couple of days after the cutoff date for Kindergarten, therefore he has always been one of the oldest in his class).

 

When he reached his "Webelos I" year in 4th grade, he turned 10 just after the start of the school year. We could tell that he was mentally done with Cub Scouts. I asked my son if he wanted to compress the Webelos years and earn Arrow of Light by the time the second-year group was crossing over (about 7 months out). I told him it would mean extra work, and that he would have to do outings with two dens. He agreed to do it, did it, and then crossed over into his older brother's troop. He was 10yrs and 7mos at the time. He's been fine ever since -- because of how his age sits, he has always been fairly comfortable with others in the school year ahead of him (who, on average, are only 6 months older than him).

[Cubby's Cubmaster]

There certainly are a lot of reasons to let him move onto scouts and a lot of reasons to let him stay for his W2 year. My son crossed over last spring. He's have a great time in scouts. He had a great time in cub scouts. All den leaders run things a little different and all boy scout leaders (boys and adults) do things a little bit differently. I think the key is to ask your son what he wants to do. Many boys are in scouts to be with their friends and to have fun. If he 'skips a grade' and his friends don't join boy scouts with him, he might miss them and miss out on the experiences shared with friends. Don't be in a hurry to move him up. While technically it might be possible, I'd recommend you keep him with his grade and his friends. When I was CM, the only time I recommended a cub scout to join scouts before February/March of the 5th grade was if he just moved into town and wanted to join scouts for the first time, at that point, it makes more sense to start as a boy scout than to start as a 5th grade cub scout.

 

Don't expect a perfect scout experience. Many of the things we adults find important are of minor importance to our sons. Being with friends and having fun were the most important things for my son. Also, be careful moving your son to boy scouts too soon. I joined scouting when I was 12 and starting 7th grade and thought it easier for me than scouts that started at age 11 and 6th grade. Now that I am an ASM I see a big difference between 11 and 12 year olds. Waiting until his W2 year is up might make scouting easier and put him in an even better position to learn the more challenging scout skills and take more responsibility on his own for his progress. Good luck.

 

Regards,

CC

[IM_Kathy]

my son has an early fall birthday - so he will be turning 18 just as his senior year starts. Getting Eagle is totally possible even if they are older than others. My son is currently 15 and is a Life Scout only needing to finish up a few of his Eagle required merit badges and then do his project.

 

Other than completing his Eagle he is looking forward to being an ASM his senior year and able to go on the outings and eat with the adults.

 

so the biggest question is what does your son want to do? Does he have friends already in the troop? Does he want to join Boy Scouts with his friends in the den? Scouting is much more fun when you do the things with your friends.

[momof2cubs]

To CC: I haven't asked him YET what he would like to do. I really didn't want to ask him until I could give him all the pros and cons, and frankly I am still very torn. I am not sure he's ready for Boy Scouts yet. You said that boys don't notice if things aren't perfect, and for the most part, that is true. However, my son has already complained to me that the Web 1s "don't do the fun things that the Web 2s did last year...we miss out on everything!" That's a quote and kinda true. One of his best buddies is a Web 2. The Web 2s in my pack have been blessed with awesome leadership and their program is lots of fun and very robust. Our den leader does what he does well, but he doesn't provide a lot of extras; only minimum necessary. My CM recommended that I be the one that provides the extras, and I just might and let the chips fall where they may. LOL, maybe you'll see a post here about "how do I handle a meddling parent".

 

To Kathy: he has several friends that will be crossing over this year. When the whole pack is together, you will see my kid gravitating towards the Web 2s a whole lot more than towards his den mates. Not that he doesn't have friends in his den, but he feels closer to the web 2s. Part of it is that I am friends with the adults in the Web 2 dens and they get to spend time together outside of scout activities.

 

I am still weighting options and haven't really decided. I am very torn. Particularly because while I think he could handle many aspects of BS and have fun, I don't think he's quite ready to completely take care of himself at BS overnight outings.

[perdidochas]

Momof2cubs

 

If he's not ready to take care of himself on BS overnight trips without you, just keep him in Webelos. Would it be possible to find another pack that has a more active Webelos den?

[momof2cubs]

Oh yes there's tons of packs in our area. We are very blessed that way.

 

However, no I wouldn't like to do that. First of all, my pack is awesome. Second of all, my younger son's den is also awesome and dealing with two different packs for the two kids would just be very complicated. Yes I know that when oldest crosses over there will be two different units. But there is a different level of parent involvement when it comes to a troop vs. a pack.

 

I'm still debating my options. We will probably just stick it out and I will just have to be "that parent" and provide extras for the den on my own. I have the backing of my CM and my CC (lol they are husband and wife and great people) on this one, so que sera, sera as far as what the den leader thinks.

[resqman]

Technically the minimum amount of time it takes to earn the rank of Eagle is 21 months. 30 days for the physical fitness tracking of tenderfoot, plus the various minimum time in POR for the higher ranks. Nationals viewpoint is to complete 1st class in the first year. That only leaves Star, Life and Eagle which require 16 months of POR.

 

I personally would not consider your soon ONLY having 6 years and a few months a problem in earning Eagle. In an active troop, he could earn his Eagle in 2 years but more likely it will take 4 years.

 

My youngest son started as a Wolf and is 4 years into Boy Scouts. At age 14, he is a Life scout. He has only missed probably half a dozen events over the last 4 years. Scouting is fun for him and the rank is just something that happens. He is not driven to earn the rank of Eagle. He has 5 MBs, POR, and project left for Eagle. He could finish all the requirements in 6 months if he had to.

 

Older son was never in scouts until age 14/15. Somewhere along the 1st/2nd year of high school he figured out he would need an accomplishment beyond whatever he was doing to get noticed for college. January he will have been in the troop 3 years. He has his Eagle project 3/4 complete and one remaining MB 3/4 complete. If all goes well, he will have earned Eagle by end of the year. 3 years almost exactly. He also played high school sports and travel sports during those 3 years.

 

Some scouts take every second up until their 18th birthday to complete all the requirements to earn Eagle. Others can set goals and get things accomplished much quicker. Don't push you son into Boy Scouts just because it will give him an extra couple months to work on Eagle. The journey is the real reward for the scout. The journey is what will change him and stay with him the rest of his life. Completeing Eagle is nice but not requried by any means for him to take something away from the scouting experience.

[momof2cubs]

reqsman: the Eagle thing is just one minor consideration. As i stated in other posts, there are other reasons why I am considering it.

[ScoutNut]

You said your son has friends in the 5th grade den. How about talking to their den leader about letting your son attend some/all of their meetings, and outings also? There is no problem with doing this from a BSA regulation standpoint as he is a Webelos.

 

Doing this will give him a broader program, help him complete AOL requirements, and perhaps gain him the confidence he needs to cross to Boy Scouts with the 5th grade Webelos.

[momof2cubs]

That's a possibility.

Thanks!