Webelos 2 and Scout at the same time?

[momof2cubs]

I have a "rules" question.

 

My son is currently in 4th grade and Webs 1. Because he has a summer birthday we held him back a year before elementary school, so consequently he started 4th grade as a 10 year old and will start 5th grade at 11 years old.

 

According to the Boy Scout rules (as I understand them), he could apply to a troop even though he is in 5th grade..because he WILL be 11.

 

My question is this: is it possible for him to join a boy scout troop AND still belong to his pack/patrol as Web 2 next year? I wouldn't want him to skip the Web 2 year because it's important and because that's when my pack works on most of the AOL requirements. But also, I sorta want him to get a "head start" on boy scouting, since he will only have until the end of his junior year in high school to complete all eagle requirements. Effectively he would have 6 months to a year less time than most boys.

 

There are other reasons too: he's very motivated, one of his best buddies will be crossing over this year, and his patrol leader is not very "demanding" and is only doing the minimum amount necessary to get the boys to earn rank and AOL without many extras and fun stuff that makes the Webelos years so great.

 

As an example of his scouting "fervor": as of November (right now) of his web 1 year he has already earned 10 webelos activity pins (half on his own, signed off of course by his patrol leader), has completed all requirements for webelos rank with the exception of the faith (we are working on it) and most of the AOL requirements, except for troop visits since my pack does those during the web 2 year. This is all on HIM, not me, I assure you. So don't think me a pushy mom

[Scoutfish]

No. Once he joins as a Boy Scout, he is no longer be a Cub Scout.

 

But why would he want to be? He does not have to have AOL to become a Boy scout..

 

Think of it this way" When you are old enough, you can get a learner's permit to drive. After sufficient supervised practice, you can prove you are ready to get your (under 18) provisional(limited) driver's license. One you have your provisional driver's license, the permit is null and void. Then as you turn 18, you get a regular drivers license. Now the provisional license is void

 

Cub Scouts is the learners permit.

Webelos is kinda the provisional driver's license of Boy Scouts. It's not Boy Scouting, but you work on Boy Scouting stuff with adequate supervision and you get to attend a few Boy Scout activities.

 

Going to Boy Scouts is like getting your driver's license. Why would you want to still use and be limited to your provisional license?

 

 

 

 

[momof2cubs]

"But why would he want to be? He does not have to have AOL to become a Boy scout.. "

 

Because he wants to earn AOL. It's an important event and a big accomplishment. He doesn't want to miss it and frankly, neither do I. He's worked hard for it. My pack will not award AOLs to web 1s. We hold an AOL/crossover ceremony for web 2s in March.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Oh,I completely agree. AOL is very big deal.

 

What I meant is why be both a cub and a boy scout. Not that you can, but why would you want to be.

 

If he's still working for that AOL, hold off on the Boy Scouts. Most scouts cross over after getting AOL anyways.

[momof2cubs]

So u are saying he couldn't work on his AOL next year (5th grade) at the same time he is in a boy scout troop? Once he joins a boy scout troop his cub scouting days are over? Even if he IS eligible for both?

 

AOL requirements: be active in your webelos den for at least six months since completing the 4th grade OR AT least 6 months since becoming 10 years old AND earn the webelos badge (the second part of the "or" and the earning of webelos badge will happen in February of next year while he is in 4th grade)

 

Scouts badge requirements: Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18. (OR IS AGE 11 will be true as of the summer between his 4th and 5th grade)

 

He will NOT be awarded AOL in 4th grade even he does complete all the requirements because that's not the way our pack does it. So in other words, he CANNOT cross over "formally" until the web 2 year (5th grade)

[Scoutfish]

What I am saying is this: He cannot be registered as a Cub Scout and Boy Scout at the same time.

 

As far as the terms are:

 

Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade AND is at least 10 years old - Key Point being he has finished 5th grade

 

or is age 11 - At this age, he can join Boy Scouts regardless of what did or didn't happen in Cub Scouts.

 

or has earned the Arrow of Light Award AND is at least 10 years old - Meaing - If he is still 10, but has earned AOL which signifies that he has proven he Knowledgable enough to join Boy Scouts

 

, but has not reached age 18.- He is now TOO OLD to be a Boy Scout.

 

So he has a choice: Join Boy Scouts when he is eligible to, or wait til he earns his AOL, then join Boy scouts.

[Eagle92]

Mom,

Once he fills out an application to join a troop and turns it in, he is a Boy Scout, no multiple registration allowed for cub scout and boy scout.

 

As for your pack not awarding the AOL while he is in 4th grade is adding to requirements. If ALL of the requirements are met they cannot refuse to give it to him. A chat with the CM, CC, may be in order.

[ScoutNut]

>>"He will NOT be awarded AOL in 4th grade even he does complete all the requirements because that's not the way our pack does it. So in other words, he CANNOT cross over "formally" until the web 2 year (5th grade)."

[momof2cubs]

Eagle: you are absolutely right and in fact I just called my CM (we are good friends) and had a long chat. He explained a few pros and cons, but he also told me that assuming my kid completes the AOL requirements they will award it to him at the ceremony in March and he *could* cross over. Of course, there are several other factors to consider if you are thinking about skipping web 2s. So..

 

Thanks!!!!

[momof2cubs]

ScoutNut: apparently u are right about that. My CM says they will give it to him if he earns it. It just doesn't happen very often because of the way our pack structures our web years. I.e. they don't start visiting troops until the web 2 year, etc. Nothing stopping a cub from doing it on his own, but they just don't do it as dens until then.

 

Also in re: patrol leader. Our pack calls web dens patrols. The leaders should still be called den leaders of course. But my son's den is actually called the Flaming Arrows Patrol. Some packs do that and they wear the patrol badges the scouts do.

[shortridge]

What Eagle92 and ScoutNut said. Your pack's "way" can't stand in your son's way of earning his Arrow of Light. There is no rule that says a first-year Webelos Scout cannot earn his Arrow of Light and cross over to a troop, and a pack cannot make such a rule.

 

Glad to hear your son is so gung-ho! Sounds like he'd get a lot more out of Boy Scouting than another year in Cubs. Ask the pack leaders to show you the rule that allows them to add to the AOL requirements. They won't be able to. Then stand back proudly and watch him cross over to his new troop and tackle a new adventure! Congratulations!

[Snow_White]

Another thing that I'd like to point out is that the pack does not control when your son "can" cross-over - he can do that at any time once he's met the joining requirements for Boy Scouts - whenever you and he decide that the time is right.

 

The pack absolutely should present your son with his AoL when it is earned. Check the requirements carefully; some specify that activities are to be done "with your den" and that can make it difficult to complete if the rest of the den is moving at a different pace.

 

(And about the patrol thing - while Webelos dens are allowed to/ encouraged to choose a name for themselves and can wear a patrol emblem representing this name, they are in fact still dens and should not be called patrols.)

[kbandit]

"Because he has a summer birthday we held him back a year before elementary school, so consequently he started 4th grade as a 10 year old and will start 5th grade at 11 years old." I am sure you had very good reasons for this and do not wish you to have to defend that decision.

 

" But also, I sorta want him to get a "head start" on boy scouting, since he will only have until the end of his junior year in high school to complete all eagle requirements. Effectively he would have 6 months to a year less time than most boys." He has until he turns 18. If he is motivated 6 months will not make a difference in obtaining Eagle rank. Boy Scouts progress at their own rate not that of their patrol or peers. They take ownership in their progress.

 

"This is all on HIM, not me, I assure you. So don't think me a pushy mom " See above.

 

Please look honestly at your son before he joins a Boy Scout troop. Is he mature enough to take care of himself by himself? In our troop parents do NOT camp at all with their sons for the first few months. Can he be confident to do this? Would he be ready to goto 1 week at summer camp? Would he benefit from another year of Webelos going on campouts?

Talk to the scoutmaster of the troop he is wanting to join and get some insight as what will be expected from you and him.

I do not want you to respond to these questions only to think about what I have posed.

 

As a parent I am positive you only want the best experience for your son. As leaders we only want whats best for your son.

 

He has 10 more activity pins he can earn. Good luck to your son.

[momof2cubs]

Snow White: you are right, see my above posts in re: discussing it with our CM. And I suppose you could be right about the patrol thing, but my pack calls them patrols. *shrugs* I didn't have anything to do with that custom.

 

Kbandit: you raise extremely valid points. There were good reasons we held him back. They had a whole lot more to do with emotional/social maturity than with academics. So your points are very well taken: he might not be ready emotionally and socially to be part of a troop. Our CM who has known him since he was 5 told me to consider the same thing. For instance: the summer between his 2nd and 3rd grade he went to a non-scout overnight summer camp for a week. He was mostly fine aside from some very minor home sickness episodes. So at the end of his bear year (3rd grade), I felt he would be just fine going to a the weekend Webelos Woods. And yet, even though he came back and reported he had a grand time, his CM (who went) told me they had to talk to him a couple of times because he started crying wanting to go home. This was last Spring. Maybe he's grown some, maybe he hasn't. A lot to consider.

 

Frankly, one of the MAIN reasons I am even considering having him cross over at the end of his web 1 year is because his den leader is very lazy and not providing what *I* consider a full scouting experience, despite my repeated efforts and offers to help him out. In a for instance: last pack meeting he simply did not show up and didn't tell anyone he wouldn't be coming. Our boys were standing around with nothing to do during the gathering activity. I had to be the one to scramble and find some supplies for the boys to do their activity. This sounds like a small and petty thing, but it is very indicative of his regular behavior.

 

And no, there aren't any other web 1 dens in our pack, so we don't have the option of transferring unless we switch packs, which I really don't want to do. (neither does my son)

[momof2cubs]

"As leaders we only want whats best for your son."

 

This is true for 95% of the leaders in my pack. They are mostly an awesome and dedicated bunch. It is not, however, true for my my oldest son's leader. The only reason he is doing it is to benefit his kid. If an activity doesn't benefit his child, he won't do it. In my previous post, I mentioned how he didn't show up to the pack meeting. The reason was his kid wanted to go to a different activity being held at our school at the same time.