webelos camping

[bear dad]

Hi all,

Was reading the G2SS with reagrds to webelos camping as it reads,

 

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

 

Okay, here is the question as in our pack, only 1 boy has lives with both parents ( thats sad thing now days). Parent has more than 1 kid so it is tuff on them to go with boy on a campout.

In the text it says at 1 point "under supervision of parent- approved adult". Last line states parents are expected to accompany boys.

So am I right to say, that parents are encourage-expected to go, but don't have to if they a approved adult there? Can the approved adult be the DL and another parent? They would be 2 deep at ALL TIMES!!

Seems like can prevent some boys going because mom/dad can't go, because of other things.

[83Eagle]

The short answer is that Webelos do not need to be accompanied by parent(s).

 

The DL and parent are fine. The training required of the adults in charge, as well as the ratio of adults:scouts (beyond the need for two-deep) is murky, but that is not your question, so...

[moosetracker]

Yeah, the same murkyness came up earlier in the week about the ratio for Pack camping. But with that it more leans to family camping with some sort of fudgy language that sounds like you have leeway, but scouts needed to be assigned to an adult.. What the ratio is is murky, but the leaning for Pack camping is family oriented..

 

Webelos - I guess does not lean toward family camping although you do have the line of In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian... Which is the same line for Pack camping.. You have It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Pack camping has.. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult..

 

You also have Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged and I don't know about all the troops out there, but our troop will not take a Webelos on a campout without a parent/guardian..

 

 

Some how though this wording we are to get that Webloes you don't need a parent, and Pack camping you do.. Clear as mud.. that has black oil and tar mixed in..

 

Don't get me wrong I am looking for Pack camping to need a parent, while you are looking for the Webeloes do not.. So it's nice we can look at this and see what we wish to see.

[ScoutNut]

If you have a single parent with younger siblings, I would ask the parent to first see if they could make alternate accommodations for their other children for the campout. Often grandparents, aunts, uncles, or even the other parent, will be more than happy to have them over for the one night.

 

It is important to have the parents with their Webelos, especially if it is a campout with a Troop. This way the parent sees first hand how the Troop is run, and gets to know some of it's adults.

 

If there is no other option, the Webelos can go with another parent. I would also recommend a signed permission slip stating exactly who is responsible for the Scout.

[dmillar71]

What Scoutnut said...

 

Our Pack requires at least one parent/guardian/family member per Scout.

 

[DeanRx]

The OP is not about pack family campouts, rather 'webelos' camping.

 

Per my WELOT (now OWLS) training last srping and per our Council's guidance (I assume it comes from national, but haven't checked b/c all I can about is if council will aprrove the tour permit)...

 

1) Webelos dens CAN den camp provided....

 

2) Two-deep leadership is observed at all times..

3) All adults on the campout are YPG trained

4) At least TWO of the adults in the group are WELOT / OWLS trained

5) At least ONE adult in the group has a current CPR certification

 

As an aside - our council strongly advocates for small scout to adult ratios and limiting webelos den camps to less than 72 hours, but that is just guidance.

 

If you have the training - then GO CAMPING! if not, then GET THE TRAINING and go camping!

 

I was told by our council staff at the Web Woods leaders meeting this month, that the projection for boys leaving scouting between Webelos and the transition to Boy Scouts is upwards of 35-40%. Thats a high attrition rate.

 

Anything you can do to keep them excited about scouting in this age group is a plus. Getting them outside (especially with some independence from adults) goes a LONG way in holding their attention to scouting.

 

my 2 cents...

[ScoutNut]

Of the four requirements you listed to be able to take a Webelos den camping, only one, the requirement for 2-deep leadership, is a BSA National requirement. The others are requirements in your council only.

 

In my council the requirements for Webelos camping are -

 

2-deep leadership

Tour Permit

1 registered adult with Youth Protection training

1 adult with Hazardous Weather Training

 

We encourage a parent to accompany each Webelos.

 

Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders is recommended, but NOT required, by National (or my council).

 

CPR is only required, per the Local Tour Permit, for boating activities with Safety Afloat training, and climbing activities with Climb On Safely Training.

 

 

[moosetracker]

I was thinking the tour permit & G2SS would have listed all that if it was requirements, so I agree with ScoutNut..

 

I emailed our DE about our council's policies, but he hasn't returned my email yet. I might call and ask the woman who mans the phones and approves the tour permits.. Maybe she will know.

 

Seems more & more like the Council's putting together the policies for the Pack camping & Webeloes Den camping.

 

OWLS in our neck of the woods is only needed if you want a knot on your uniform, awarded for being a Webelos den leader.. Other then that, we always push IOLS for Webelos or SM/ASM, good enough & OWL isn't required.

 

Two per den who are OWL trained ??!!! Wow, that is more severe then Pack Camping you only need one BALOO Trained.. A den may have 8 boys tops, where a Pack may have 50 - 100 out camping! Your council I think is forcing OWL training down your throats.. Then your stuck retaking the practically the same course over again when you get into a troop & need IOLS.

[evmori]

Let common sense prevail.

[83Eagle]

I think the fact that the rules refer only to adult supervision leaves things open to different practices.

 

Regarding WLOT (formerly OWLS...or I've seen that it's called OLS-W now...seems to vary depending on who's putting on the training), can anyone tell me why you would take this if you already have BALOO or capable outdoor skills? I was told by my district training guy that "The WLOT does a bit more training in the Webelos to Scout transition, but as far as outdoor skill has no advantage over BALOO."

 

Well, I'm all for training but not to put a few days into training that only gives me "a bit" more knowledge.

 

It seems like the place for WLOT is very undefined. I asked "Why take WLOT" but haven't gotten a reply yet.(This message has been edited by gotta run)

[moosetracker]

Gottarun - This has been talked about before.. If you don't care about another Knot for being a Webelos leader on your uniform take IOLS. Difference of the 2 is totem chit vs whittling chit & animal/plant ID vs 3 Webelos activity pins for outdoor guidence.. IOLS will be required when you transition to a troop if become an SM/ASM OWL is just recommended.

 

As for there being a difference, there is a big difference between the two.. Common is campfire program, site selection.. First aid is touched on quickly more for how to build a medicine Kit.. IOLS/OWL does actually First aid training.. Then IOLS does wood Tools like hatchet, axe etc.. much more cooking then an aluminum foil lunch.. Orienteering.. Backpacking.. Knots & lashings.. etc.. much more hands on/ less classroom.. IOLS doesn't get into paperwork.

[83Eagle]

Sorry to rehash something that was already discussed; I guess I should have done a search of the forums first.

 

I have considered taking IOLS but I wanted to do something at this time that would have direct relevance to the ability to take my son's Webelos Den camping next year. So that sent me down the whole WLOT/WELOT/OWL/OLS-W maze.

 

What I've heard from my district training resource, however, is that there is no "reverse compatibility" from IOLS to WOLT, whereas there is from WOLT to BALOO. So I didn't know if it made sense to even to IOLS, particularly because I'm not sure what my son will be doing when he gets to Boy Scouts, or if I'd even have a role there.

 

Like everyone else, I have limited time and am trying to make the best training selection, keeping in mind what is required vs. recommended vs. helpful.

[bear dad]

Thanks for the replies. As to my training have done WELOT training in my district it required, however in another district it is not in smae council. I will always have at LEAST 2 deep,

have hazard weather and least 1 person YP with me at ALL TIMES.

 

I am trying to figure out how 1 boy from a differnt den with a troop camping. Boys mom signed a permission slip , so I guess it gave the okay to the SM to take him?

 

My problem is have boys with single parents most with more than 1 other sib, not giving a excuse to step up and help at least once. But if you have the required 2 deep in place, YP and hazards weather or ?? in line, you want to go camping with 5-6 boys and have 2,3,4 adults you can't let some go because there is not a enough adults there.

Boys don't grasp the concept and understand why, just that can't and leaves a bad experince for them.

Grant it 1 would not try to take a dozen boys with only 2 people, but in a small setting 4-5 max I don't see why the 2 Deep rule could not work?

[ScoutNut]

>>"I am trying to figure out how 1 boy from a differnt den with a troop camping. Boys mom signed a permission slip , so I guess it gave the okay to the SM to take him?"

[bear dad]

ScoutNut,

 

Let me make this clearer sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. The troop the boy went with has a history with our pack. His den meets at the troops c/o and we know the SM there.

In fact I have been to one of his troop meetings.

So it is not like boy just picked out a troop and went with them.

 

Now as to my den camping, the 2 deep rule would be in place like a I said, with hopefully more than than that.According the G2SS that WEBELOS need a adult/guardian for campout. It never states that it could be the DL?

have troops that want us to go with them but tells us that WEBS need to have adult go with the.

Not againist the ideal but if you are with a troop and have other adults there and you have atleast 2 of your own adults with you, why can't you? Same for the den?