Webelos outdoor training clarification

[83Eagle]

The more I read the more confused I get. I need to give our WDLs some solid and correct advice on what training is required and what is recommended if they decide to have the Webelos dens camp as a den.

 

1. First, does IOLS also encompass the required/recommended Webelos training? That is, could a WDL who is hoping to stay with the Scouting program take IOLS in preparation for Boy Scouts and kill two birds with one stone?

 

2. Second, the G2SS says that a Webelos scout may participate in den camping when supervised by an adult. No traning requirements are specified there. In other documents, it appears to be recommended (should) rather than required ("must") that a Webelos den have a leader who has completed position-specific training and Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders on Webelos den camping events. Therefore, my interpretation is that, even though it's not preferred, a non-trained leader could take a Webelos Den camping.

 

3. BALOO training only comes into play for Pack overnighters (which involve the spectrum of Dens). It has nothing to do with Webelos Den camping.

 

I'm not looking for a discussion of what is the best practice; I'm looking for the literal answer to the question based on the rules in order to answer questions that come up.(This message has been edited by gotta run)

[Eagle92]

Gotta,

 

#1 HAPPY HALLOWEEN!

 

#2 to answer your question, yes an untrained leader can take a Webelos Den out camping. part of the rationale I'm told is that most of the time, the den is going camping with a scout troop, and the Scout leaders have the training.

 

In ref to IOLS vs WeLOT, national a few months back in a training update stated that the two courses would be combined. A lot of councils are already doing it that way, and some do not even put on WeLOT, telling folks to take IOLS instead.

 

Me personally I recommend IOLS for those who need outdoor training. I strongly recommend the test out option for those who have the skills already. As a 18 or 19 yo ASM who earned eagle and had 2 50 milers under my belt, the outdoor portion of the old SM Fundamentals was kinda boring.

[Eagle92]

DRAT a double post!(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[83Eagle]

Our two WDLs are not the outdoorsy type so I've been trying to establish better communication between the dens and the feeder troop. That would be the ideal solution in this case. But, you can lead a horse to water...

[dg98adams]

OWLS is a requirement for the Webelos Leader knot, under Training.

 

OWLS covers the Outdoor activity badges which IOLS does not (specifically anyway). This is pretty much the biggest difference, but is OWLS IS NOT needed to be considered TRAINED as a WDL.

 

IOLs IS required for SM/ASM to be considered TRAINED.

 

Our council finally offered OWLS at the same time as IOLS. I was the chair this time, and we only came together for meals/cooking demos.

[Stosh]

It's been many years since I taught the SM Fundamentals and Webelos Outdoor, but unless there is a lot that truly overlapped at that point.

 

BS - set up their own tents and did their own cooking on stoves and fires.

CS - did not.

 

BS - weren't really restricted as to where they could go to camp.

CS - are restrictions.

 

BS - adult leaders often times have a few years of outdoor experience before they come into the program. SM's that have never camped out before taking the job are very rare.

CS - not a safe assumption. (I had WDL's that stopped off at Walmart and picked up a tent and sleeping bag on the way to the training weekend!)

 

I stopped teaching when National said that a leader can get the training and camp with their boys without ever having slept in a tent themselves before hand.

 

One can safely assume that if the CS program for Den Chiefs has a break out between Wolf/Bear and Webelos, there's another natural break between Webelos and BS.

 

If National has merged the training, I'm sure that a lot of what was being covered in the past isn't anymore.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92]

Stosh,

The two courses are so nearly identical now, that I've seen a syllabus produced by one council that has it combined, they just haev break out sessions for the specific areas that are not identical.

 

National said that a combined course will be headed our way earlier this year. Then just prior to Jambo, they said next year the courses will be combined. I know in my district, I was told by my DE that A) BALOO is just a formality for me for SCOUTNET reasons and B) I, and anyone else who has had IOLS or older versions thereof, would not need WeLOT as IOLS and WeLOT are nearly identcial.

[83Eagle]

Well, I was looking for info on when WLOT training might be in our district and it hasn't been solidly scheduled yet.

 

So in discussing this with my local training resource...the "unit trainer" or whatever he's called, I asked him why I should take WLOT since I have BALOO, how it's different, what to recommend to my leaders, etc.

 

He basically said that "The WLOT does a bit more training in the Webelos to Scout transition, but as far as outdoor skill has no advantage over BALOO."

 

He also said that "You must have one BALOO trained individual and each leader must be Youth Protection trained to take the Webelos boys camping."

 

Well, I don't see the BALOO stuff for Webelos in the books anywhere so that may be a district thing, your mileage may vary, yada yada. Now, it's not a bad idea but if I have a leader that asks "show me where" I'm gonna have to say "the district says so."

 

More murkiness...(This message has been edited by gotta run)

[bear dad]

Baloo is for Pack Camping not webelos camping.

I did WELOT training it was geared for Webelos leaders to take den camping.

[83Eagle]

Baloo is for Pack Camping not webelos camping.

 

I don't disagree, I'm just saying what I was told...which doesn't appear to be supported by the various rules. This comes on top of other interpretations that may or may not be right and were hashed out in other threads.

 

Sometimes I think it would be better to be part of the 98% of the population that doesn't worry about all these fine details and just goes and does "what makes sense." Ya try to do the right thing but it's hard when you get different guidance.

[bear dad]

Understand going thru some different answers from 1 person to the next on a different matter myself.

[Eagle92]

When in doubt, call the DE. Just don't call them at 1AM