A "plug" for the Guide to Safe Scouting

[evmori]

I don't see where paddleboating is a violation in the G2SS? Can someone help me on this?

 

Thanks

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[NJCubScouter]

Well, Ed, I just looked at the G2SS and you're right... but in this case maybe you're not right. The section I was talking about mentions "canoeing and rafting," so a paddleboat probably would be ok under the right conditions...

 

...but the "right conditions" include that the adult leaders have completed BSA Safety Afloat Training and Safe Swim Defense Training and that at least one be trained in CPR. I know that none of the adults in my pack has Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense Training. A couple are trained in CPR (one of whom is an M.D.) but I do not think either of them are in that den, so they were not on that trip.

 

When I read through the Safety Afloat section, it's amazing the number of ways you can "go wrong" and not even know it unless you've studied the thing. I think sctmom was basically saying the same thing.

[ASM7]

Le Voyageur

I can't seem to find the "BSA National Standards for Council High Adventure and Specialty Programs" publication listed on the BSA website. Where did you find this? Just need some help.

Doug

[John D]

All the fun things I did as a kid are banned in this safe scouting guide, which reads more like a guide to avoid litigation. Here in the middle east we do not have scum bag lawyers lurking behind every bush, thank goodness. I pity you USA scouters who have to worry constantly about being sued. Some serious tort reform would put more fun and spontaneity back into scouting, and give scouters some measure of protection.

[evmori]

John D,

I never worry about being sued. If the Scouts are having fun & the event will be covered by our Tropp insurance, we do it!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scomman]

I have had the opportunity to serve on a camp planning session for my church and CO. I was amazed at how many times we puled out the GSS to help settle what we were planning for the boy's to do at a summer outing. The reason for this is that alot of the youth coming for this event were Scouts and so Scout policy had to override any other policies. We have discovered that even though we look at the GSS and realize a lot of stuff we did as kids is no longer legal we should look at as a guide to having fun within the rules.

 

 

[CubsRgr8]

Ed, could you please explain a little about your troop insurance? Is this a stand-alone policy your troop purchases on an annual basis? If so, what does it cover that the national BSA policy doesn't? What does it cost? etc? Thanks.

[Rooster7]

I tend to agree with John D. I think it's a sad statement that activities such as paintball are not permitted. They have an element of risk, but so does most activities, including many that are BSA approved. As for the "gun" aspect of this prohibition (if in fact that was part of the consideration), it's another example of political correctness. However, as I already noted, if it's in the G2SS, I follow it. Personally, I think BSA does overreact to the prospect of litigation.

 

I don't know if I shared this story before. So, if it's redundant, forgive me. The city I live in, once considered banning sledding on all public properties. That was at the advice of the city manager and per the counsel of the city's lawyer. I don't know about your town, but in mine, the only worthwhile places to sled are public properties. Fortunately, our councilmen decided that they couldn't accept a town that didn't allow kids to go sledding. They opted to post a few signs in some areas that they felt were too dangerous. At some point, whether it be the government, businesses, BSA or some other private organization, people have to stand up and say, "We rather fight these clowns then change our way of life." Alas, too many people cave and write a new ruleusually one that takes our rights away to take some risk and have a little fun. Eventually, it appears that we will all be living in plastic bubbles or paying outlandish insurance premiums in order to leave them.

 

[jbroganjr]

Yes, I truly believe that the GSS is there to protect National from lawsuits. I also believe, being from jersey with its abundance of lawyers, that you as a leader need to follow the GSS to protect your own rear end. I also know that national is not coming to your defense and will not provide legal costs, especially if you did not follow GSS. I also believe the GSS is overboard and has the created a ripple effect of keeping people who follow it too fearful of risk and that us folks (I am included somewhat in this statement) look overbearing to the folks who do not have nor read GSS. Having stated that I am in the GSS group, I am compelled to say, that I look for ways to walk that edge, as boys need adventure. So I spend way too much free time making sure that we hit the requirements so the boys can have the adventure.

But, only by being trained and following the guidelines, will you have a defense in court, God Forbid that something catastrophic should happen. I do recall seeing recently a case where a leader was not held liable because she had been trained, filled out a tour permit and conducted the program within the guidelines.

I would also suggest getting a rider on your home owners insurance to cover your scouting activities. Cost more, you bet, but worth it in a catastrophe. Loss often times causes people to seek out blame and punishment. thus the road to h, e double hockey sticks is paved with good intentions.

This is information I try to convey and reconvey at my RT's. Be prepared!

[james_clegg]

In my opinion the GSS is well founded. Most of the baned activities have been the souce situation where a boy has been seriously injored or died. I feel that the GSS is my oportunity to learn from others mistakes. So good bad or ugly I will follow it.

 

JC

[eisely]

There is no question that G2SS errors on the side of caution. So be it. Following the guidelines is sensible, reduces the risk of something really bad happening, and protects your rear end. Good enough for me.

[eisely]

The word is "errs".