Den Leader Report Card

[ManyHats]

Our intention was not pass or fail, but more of a form of feedback. So forget the report card or survey.

I'm well aware of the new program. It's not new to us. For the last 5 years if it wasn't done in den meetings you had to beg and plead for it to get done. We purchased the new program book and ADL has the section for their rank.

This really isn't about getting it done early, but DL wants to be done by Dec. This DL previously was DL for an older group, but needed to step back to be DL for younger son. I've been told numerous times that we lost a couple scouts due to the meetings being boring. I'm afraid the same will happen with the current den.

[denleader09]

You are in a tough spot! If you guys decide to do the feedback option, you will have to decide how you want to gather it. If the CM is too scared to say something to the DL, then he isn't going to want to show him the feedback that his meeting is boring. If the families give it directly to the DL, then they might not be honest in their feelings because of the chance of confrontation or not wanting to hurt his feelings.

 

What a shame that some have already quit. I wish I could think of something that you as another den leader could do to change it. I know that if another leader starts telling me how to run my meetings, I might get very defensive depending on how it's done. And if this guy really thinks he's right about the way he is doing it, you need to be careful how this might backfire. All I can think of is to encourage him to go to roundtable and lead by example. I hope that this can be resolved. Good luck!

[Lisabob]

General maxim: don't ask questions you don't really want answered.

 

If you are not prepared to use the feedback in some constructive way, then you will only cause more problems by requesting the feedback.

 

A better avenue for your situation might be to identify other people to be DLs and move this guy over to the pack committee. He really doesn't sound like a fabulous den leader. Then again, there are so many other jobs in a pack that he might be perfect for. Put him in charge of the popcorn sale next year (or whatever else).

 

Find whatever graceful way out that you can, to get him out of the DL spot. Maybe "so and so is really interested in doing this and we'd love to give him/her the chance to be DL" or "you're so good at ___, we think you'd be an excellent popcorn kernal (or whatever)" or "we're hoping to bring along some parents of the younger boys so that we have more depth in our leadership corp." Or whatever you think will appeal to this guy's ego, in a sincere sort of a way.

 

Doing this will require the coordinated effort of several folks in the pack (CM, CC, at a minimum). If this is just you as a lone voice, forget about it and just bite your tongue because you, alone, will not be able to make this happen.

 

 

[RipVanScouter]

Just for fun, I'll take this on from another perspective...

 

What has the Pack committee and/or the other den leaders done to offer him program helps and examples of things that have been used in his den's program in the past? I've been getting help/support/suggestions (for my TC program) from Scouters other than my Pack leadership - they're not very proactive when it comes to teaching/training TDLs. So my plan over the course of this year is to document all the games, puzzles and activities that I had to dig up/discover/beg/borrow/steal or outright invent and create a Tiger Cub Den Leader "Cliff's notes" sorta thing. Do you have a "nuts and bolts" resource available for him?

 

It could very well be that he sees his role as trying to get the boys as much advancement as fast as possible to keep "A" personality parents interested in the program. It could also be that he has(or perceives he has) low parent participation and has to 'carry' everything or maybe he's not good at delegating. Perhaps you should casually ask the parents how they feel about the program, and stress to the parents as well as the DL the 'shared leadership role'.

 

...just some thoughts...to be taken with a truckload of salt.

[ManyHats]

We offered Roundtables, but he can't attend on that night. We encourage all the den leaders to discuss acheivements with previous den leader for that rank. We bought the New Program book. He has a great resource he's not using. If my ADL said to tell them what acheivement we would be working on and they would have a related craft, I'd be excited. This den likes crafts and definitely needs to keep their hands busy.

[Stosh]

Maybe the ADL could come prepared with a craft and the DL come with the instructional part. This way, the ADL could help the DL keep his part sharp so that there's plenty of time for the crafts. I'm thinking that if the two ever got on the same page together they'd work quite well with the boys.

 

Stosh

[ScoutNut]

Any feedback, and/or discussion with this den leader MUST come from his assistant den leader and the Cubmaster. My suggestion is that the two of them sit down with this den leader for a heart to heart talk as soon as possible. The only other folks who might consider being there are the CC, and the COR.

 

As a den leader yourself, you have no say in what happens in another den. It is not your job. Your job is to give YOUR Scouts in YOUR den the best possible program you can.

 

 

[ManyHats]

ADL made the DL tell her what they are doing next. She was at a breaking point when the DL talked to her like she was just another parent of a scout in his den.

[83Eagle]

I have used interest surveys at the den level to determine what Scouts do and don't want to do when it comes to activities, but I'm not real fond of the report-card-type option. We all know the amount of work that goes into volunteering for any position and I don't think there's a way to do a judgment-type survey without it being a slap in the face.

 

I just gotta ask, where are the parents in all this? If their son is bored they probably know it (maybe they're even at the Den meetings to see it), so what are they doing to help fix it? They need to step up and the ADL needs to be more assertive as well. Don't just say "We want to to X, Y, and Z" on a survey--offer to the DL to bring X, Y, Z activity to the Den meeting and handle all the details because they know how busy he is, so just let us know what meeting can we do that. If he says the den meetings are just too busy (to meet that December deadline, which I agree is a little crazy), then offer to organize specific outings to add variety to the program to balance the bookwork. I guess I just get tired of people complaining about the way things are run but who aren't willing to lead the charge themselves to make things better. It's everyone's job to "Help the Pack (er...Den) Go."

 

Anyway, as as been pointed out here, since you're not the DL there's nothing you can do about another Den. Plus, my philosophy is to let those who stepped up to do things, do things their own way as long as they are within the guidelines--while of course bringing up news and opportunities that can benefit them. You can lead a horse to water...

 

(This message has been edited by gotta run)

[Scoutfish]

 

 

I agree with this in some ways, but in other ways, I'd say: " Yes, it is my buisness! "

 

No, I shouldn't concern myself with every single thing that other DL does, That would mean that I am ignoring my den, right? And that would be just as bad!

 

But at the same time, as a DL, that means I am a prt of the leadership of the pack, and as a prt of that leadership, I have a responcibility to the whole pack, not just my own den, or my own kid(s).

 

Notice that the very forst word typed by the original poster( Manyhats) was the word : "We've". Not "I". To me, that sounds like at least two, but could mean many more - especially as it sounds like a policy idea that is being kicked around.

 

THE LAW OF THE PACK

 

The Cub Scout follows Akela.

The Cub Scout helps the pack grow.

The pack helps the Cub Scout grow.

The Cub Scout gives goodwill.

 

The leadership let's the pack lose boys and maybe let's the pack die because they should mind their own buisness?

 

As leaders, we are supposed to help all the boys. We are supposed to help the pack grow and be the best pack it can be.

 

No, I do not think it's my buisness to go over every detail of what another DL does, nor give my critique of it. But if I know he's boring his kids to tears and they may drop out..then YES!, It is my buisness as part of the pack leadership to ( at the very least) take the DL aside and tell him what I see. SOme friendly suggestions are in order. The next step is to talk to the CM about my concerns as it is the CM's job to seek out,establish, and maintain those leaders.

 

So, it's not a flat-out simple black and white answer.

[Jeffrey H]

I've taken alot of boring Scout training ZZZzzzz!! However, if there is one word of advice I have received that was great take away for successful Den Meetings it is this: "KISMIF" (Keep It Simple, Keep It Fun!)

 

As a DL, I understand the need to stay on Track with achievements. However, it's okay to venture off the agenda for a little bit and add some spark and fun to your meetings. Besides, if you can't finish your agenda in your Den meeting, have your Scouts do it at home and have their parents (Akela) sign-off on the completion. Work on those achievements in the meeting, but be prepared to throw in some fun and games as well. Often, the games can complement an achievement or elective that you are working on.

 

Wondering what to do? Get a copy of the "Cub Scout Leader How-To Book." Great resource! "Sparklers" is also handy.

 

I know there a "program guide" and it's a good resource, but it may not fit into the needs of your Den. Be flexible and have fun.