Den Leader Report Card

[ManyHats]

We've been kicking around having the scouts fill out a report card on their den leaders.

The idea came about after seeing one of the den leaders boring the scouts by reading acheivements from the book. This leader is concerned about getting things done in a certain time frame. The assistant has tried to ask for the agenda so she could add a fitting craft or game to make the meeting more fun. We thought comments from the scouts might open the leader's eyes. The report card would be done for all dens and not singling out just this one. I'm one of the den leaders, so I would be interested in what they have to say knowing they won't put their name on it.

What items would you put on the report card?

Are your den meetings fun?

What would you like to do more of?

[dg98adams]

Don't wanna make Den meetings resemble school...

 

Don't need any more paper work....

 

Try this .....

 

Maybe have the CM/ACM visit the Den Meetings.

 

Maybe have the CM/ACM have a friendly chat with the DL/ADL and let them know advancement has it's place, but the boys should WANT to come to meetings. Boys need to move, and do things at meetings it's the DL/ADL's job to "herd" them in a way that they get their fun and work on requirements/electives along the way.

 

The best requirements are the ones earned that way.

 

 

 

[Stosh]

If the DL flunks, is the CM ready to take over the den if they can't find anyone to put in his/her place? Will the next person be any better?

 

I can see this turning into a witch-hunt with the boys taking the lead. If my troop committee even thought about such a process for me, I'd be moving on to the next troop. If there are concerns, discuss it in private, don't make it a public spectacle in front of the boys. I have better things to do with my time than play these kinds of games.

 

In this case, if the ADL thinks he/she could do better, then ask the DL to step down and give the ADL the DL spot by themselves, then they can call all the shots and keep the boys entertained.

 

My suggestion? -- when you're done kicking this idea around, kick it out the door.

 

Stosh

 

 

 

 

[perdidochas]

Sounds like a good way to irritate a volunteer into quitting. Unless your pack has a supply of extra den leaders, I think fixing the problem by education of the DLs is better than measuring them.

[moosetracker]

I agree with Stosh..

 

Kids can be brutal given the opportunity, and it's a nasty way to have the kids do what the adults are not brave enough to do themselves in an adult and professional manner.

 

 

[Gary_Miller]

Training would serve a better purpose here than a "DL Report Card".

 

I would suggest two things

 

1. At the Den Leaders monthly meeting have a short training time. One of the subjects could be about how reading the material from the book can be very boring, and where at times it maybe necessary if it is have one of the boys do the reading.

 

2. Invite the leader to monthly CS Round Table where they can learn how to do a good meeting from experienced leaders. Pick-up the leader and take them with you.

[ManyHats]

Upper leaders tend to treat this DL with kit gloves. He brings a lot of money to the pack. ADL took over last year and did a great job, but DL didn't like not being done with rank early. I don't think it affected the DL, but I know the ADL was scrambling to help scouts that had missed several meetings get rank.

Ok forget the report card, but what about a survey. From my experience some dens like crafts and other could care less, some like knot tying...

I know I've been surprised in the past by what they liked and what flopped.

[ManyHats]

DL has been to TDL and DL training. How do you get them out of the hurry up and get it done mentality?

[Stosh]

Survey? If it looks like a duck... walks like a duck... quacks like a duck... it's probably a duck.

 

Okay, he's in a hurry and gets the bulk of the boys through the program, and the ADL picked up the pieces and got the stragglers up and running too. Sounds like the perfect team. I hope my ASM's fill in my short-comings along the way.

 

I was a WDL that took WebI boys and had them done with the program within a year. We met weekly and WebII was nothing but going out and having a ton of fun with all that training we did. I had a good ADL that backed me up 100% and we stayed on the same page all the way. So being in a hurry isn't a bad thing.... 5 of those 6 Webelos boys Eagled.

 

So what is being done to ASSIST the DL rather than just complain, and judge. Yeah, judge, that's what the survey, report card, etc. is going to do, validate a negative judgment some have towards this leader. Worse case scenario, the boys all say he's great! Now what do you do except eat crow?

 

The other leaders deal with him with kid gloves? Sounds like they sold out to the money he brings into the pack. If they were more worried about the boys in his den than the money he brings in, they would have asked him to leave a long time ago. It's always interesting to deal with situations like this when there's dollars involved and how much a lot of people will tolerate for a big payout in the end.

 

So, how would a survey go in your pack if the single question was: "Do we keep the money and poor DL or do we get a new DL and forgo the money?" Now there's a loaded question no one wants to honestly answer. Sometimes it's not a good idea to air out such ideas. It might turn out badly.

 

As I have said before, I run my troop differently than others because I turn it upside down where the PL's are the highest authority and the SPL/ASPL, SM/ASM, and committee support them in their efforts.

 

A little of that servant leadership might not be a bad option in a situation like this. What can we do to assist, help, support, guide, this DL and his/her ADL do a better job with the program? Better yet, survey everyone to see how well they have been doing helping the boys with a supported DL.

 

Surveys, and report cards have a tendency to make people look bad, whereas support, help and encouragement makes them look good. Hey, if it works, you get a good DL and the money....

 

Stosh

[shortridge]

Here's an idea ... put this moneybags DL in charge of pack fundraising.

 

An interest survey isn't going to help a bad DL improve. All the bad DL will do for a den that wants to learn more about knots is read from the book about knots.

[ManyHats]

Stosh - Last year ADL stepped up to take over as DL. She ran all the meetings, planned crafts, etc. to keep them busy. Yes it took all year to advance, but they also had several electives, belt loops, etc. Current DL said he would run all the den meetings this year. ADL keeps asking for a schedule and what she can do to help.

My guess is he knows what he wants to cover but isn't prepared before the meeting.

[ScoutNut]

You seem to be really put off by the fact that this den leader wants to get the rank requirements done "early". By "early", do you mean this den leader pushes to have all rank requirements finished by Blue and Gold in February?

 

If that is the problem you have with this leader, then you need to read up on the new Cub Scout delivery program.

 

BSA has changed how the Cub Scout program operates. Most rank requirements are now done in the den meetings, with only some "home assignments" given. BSA wants every Scout to have completed all of their rank award requirements by February. To this end, BSA has sets of den meeting blueprints for den leaders to follow.

 

So, as far as BSA is concerned, pushing the boys to get their rank requirements done as soon as possible is the way they want the dens to be run.

 

As for den meetings being boring, it sounds like the asst den leader needs to step up, and have a heart-to-heart talk with the den leader. They should be working together, and the ADL needs to get that point across clearly.

 

Report cards, and surveys are not needed. Better communication between the den's leaders is what is needed.

[ScoutNut]

The new den meeting plans can be found on the BSA National Web site here -

 

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/CubScouts/Leaders/DenLeaderResources/DenandPackMeetingResourceGuide.aspx

 

The assistant den leader can purchase the entire Den & Pack Meeting Resource Guide at your local Council's Scout Shop.

 

Perhaps if she sits down with the den leader and shows him these plans they will be better able to work together.

[denleader09]

I have to agree with everyone else. While feedback is always great for a pack, this sounds very passive aggressive. I am assuming you are including the CM as part of the upper leaders that don't want to upset the DL due to the money issue. If the CM can't talk to DL, it does put your pack in a bind with changing the den.

 

Have the parents and/or the scouts complained about the DL's program? Are they okay with the DL? Maybe they have complained that the ADL took long in achieving rank, but didn't realize that maybe going fast would leave out a lot of fun. I wonder if the parents in the den approached the DL it might be better than leaders going behind his back to do it. Not that I blame you! Scouting is so much fun, you hate to see it become a chore for the boys. But this might be one of those things where you can't change another leader's den and it has to be between ADL and DL.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Well, it's not entirely a bad idea...if you make some changes to the idea and the concept.

 

Forget about a report card.

 

Instead do a survey.

 

A reporet card is either pass or fail, but if that was truely the case, we all failed at one time or another.

 

Instead, think of it as a customer satisfaction survey.

 

Maybe the DL is a little bit dry.Maybe he just reads in a monotone way. Maybe he has no idea the scoutrs are bored to teards.

 

Next pack meeting, explain to ALL the leaders that it is thier job to keep the kids interested in the program and not jusr read from the book. Make it fun, make it exciting, be creative!

 

Then expain to the scouts that not every meeting involves running around, screaming and hollerimng or a field trip. Some times you have to be serious, sit down , and do some work that is not super exciting.

 

In the end, it should all average out.

 

As far as time lines...good and bad.

Sure, you need to have a time frame in mind and set your golas to comlete stuff in that time frame. But this isnot work, buisness or law of time.

 

This is scouting, CUB scouting to be more specific. Things do not always go as planned. Things sometimes take longer. PLan on it. One requirement or activity may take twice as long as planned. The next may take half as long as planned.

 

Adapt. UIf your DL is so strict that he cannot waver or adjust, he is not helping the scouts at all.

 

There is a difference between handing him a failing report card and giving a little bit of constructive criticism.