what to do? webelos needing to finish up without DL

[IM_Kathy]

I'm a committee member for a BSA troop, and I'm also a leader for a Girl Scout troop... one of the parents from my GS troop has a son who is a Webelos II... they have had some awful issues with his den leader and has vented to me a few times about this because she knows I used to be involved with this pack and that I'm involved with a BSA troop that her son is looking at joining. I know this den leader and normally she is a great person, but for some reason just can't stand this kid. I've been around him a lot due to single parent and he'll tag-a-long sometimes with the girls, and he is actually a decent kid - just a normal 5th grade boy LOL. This mom wants to make sure her son finishes up cubs and moves up to Boy Scouts - she sees scouts as a great program for her kids (which I have to agree) but she does not want to have to deal with this DL any more, and if all that she has said is true I wouldn't want to either.

 

so anyway... I just want to get some of your thoughts on what I'm thinking about doing...

 

I asked her to bring his webelos book to the next girl scout meeting so I can look over what he still needs to do to get his AoL. And I'm planning on talking with the cubmaster and see if he'll allow me to work with this boy to finish up these last few months with him so he can get his AoL and then join the troop.

 

so, do you think this is okay? how would you handle this?

 

oh, and there is no other webelos den for him to join - it's a small pack with just 1 den for each level.

[The Blancmange]

Has he turned 11 yet? If he has, he doesn't need to finish AOL or 5th grade in order to join Boy Scouts. I recognize that you are suggesting that you want him to earn AOL, but if the situation is that abrasive, maybe he should just move on.

 

I don't see your proposed solution as being viable unless you are willing to register as a Webelos DL.

 

Good luck.

[shortridge]

I understand your desire to help, but the parent should really be talking to the Cubmaster, not you.

[Lisabob]

If I were the cubmaster, I wouldn't be happy about your proposed solution. It has the feel of undermining the pack although I know it isn't your intention. Also, while you know the boy, you can't be sure how he behaves around the DL and you haven't heard the DL's side of the story. So there may be some other things going on that you aren't aware of, too.

 

It is one thing to chat with the mom about some general options that she has and then encourage her to work with the DL and CM to select an appropriate option for her son. (find another pack for a few months, cross over early, only attend a few remaining "required" things so the boy can get his AoL and move on, take some time off and rejoin as a boy scout without AoL, etc). It is another for you to offer to substitute for the registered pack leadership - that's what feels wrong to me, in this scenario.

[Basementdweller]

I would step out of the middle of the situation......

 

How can you sign off on his advancement since you are not his den leader???????

[Oak Tree]

Essentially, what you are asking to do is to create a second Webelos II den where there is one Webelos Scout in the den and you are the den leader.

 

You're going to have to bring the Cubmaster into this discussion. If he's ok with it, I don't see any real problem - but you'd have to know the parties involved. Would the other den leader also be happy with this solution? Would she be happy not to have this kid in her den any more? If so, she may be happy to go along too.

[evmori]

Hmmm....... Sounds like a backdoor move to me. If I was the CM I wouldn't like this. By you stepping in, all you are doing is undermining the Pack.

[moosetracker]

Like Oak Tree I see it as a second Webelos II den.. (If the pack already has a 2nd WII then better would to just transfer him into the other existing den).

 

The Pack may be ok with it or not.. Really how you approach it will be how they will react to it.

You should assess the situation more before jumping. Any chance you could come to a den meeting watch the relationship, (with an open mind, you current have a one sided story) then sit down and discuss it with den leader & the mother. If the relationship can be fixed by communication, leave things alone. If not and the 3 of you agree that it is best for the scout not to be in the den, then approach the CM.

 

But if you take on this scout you may know what the issue is that causes him not to fit in with this den, and be able to work on it. Unless you want to set up a permenant "Lone Scout" program, you will need to make sure you can get him to be able to fit into a troop when you are done.

 

 

 

 

[IM_Kathy]

ok a little more from the other day....

 

had our BSA troop meeting - her oldest and my son are in this troop as well as a boy who has a younger son in the pack. And they were chatting right next to me about the pack meeting and what went on with this boy and his parent. The DL said I hope he doesn't come back to the den I'm tired of dealing with them.

 

With my experiences with the family in Girl Scouts I have nothing to say negative about them - even when the boy attends due to lack of a sitter.

 

I was just shocked by the DL saying this - now I can see it if it were a behavior issue or bullying etc... but it's not.

 

so I went with my gut... a few years ago my son was the den chief for the den that the now CM had and so we have a good repor... so I called him up...

 

conversation basically started with me trying to not name names, but he figured it out. He knew a bit about what all went on and said that the DL over-reacted. I said I wasn't calling to blame anyone for anything - that I'm sure that both the DL and the parent have done things wrong or that upset the other, but my concern is the scout who no longer wants to attend den meetings.

 

Conversation ended with the CM saying he is swamped and doesn't think that he could work with the scout, but that if I can he'd more than welcome that and that he would then sign off and award the AoL when he gets it completed.

 

After that I talked with my son and he has volunteered to come to my GS meeting and work with the scout in another room to help him with some of the things and then I can come in at end and have him demonstrate what he's learned.

 

so, no hurt feelings... and scout will get to join the troop when he wants to because he can't wait until he gets into a boy scout troop

[Basementdweller]

I still don't understand why you are making an exception for this ONE scout??????? sounds like you are letting personal feelings get in the way of what is correct.

 

How can you or anyone not the den leader sign off on his advancement/?????

[moosetracker]

If the CM approves IM_Kathy as a den leader then I think it is acceptable (or does that need the blessing of the CC.. I have been in Troop to long & use to ASM reporting to SM, so I would think DL's report to CM).

 

Anyway if approved by the Pack, it is like a Lone Scout program with a twist because it is attached to a Pack.

[IM_Kathy]

Moose - you're basically right... for next few months he's going to be a lone scout.

 

I don't think my personal feelings really mean anything with this... kid is a good kid, I get along with him mom, I even get along with the DL... but the one feeling that I have that is affected is the fact that I think scouting is a great program and any boy that wants to be involved should be.

 

The CM has given permission to work with the boy - my son will work with him in next room while I have my GS meeting and then I'll see his finished work. I'll report to CM and he'll be signing off. From what we know right now (I'll be looking at his book next week) he needs 1 pin and then attending troop for AoL and already wants to join the troop I'm on the committee with since there is already 1 of his friends in that troop and at least 1 more joining when they get their AoL.

 

I guess I'm just in a little shock about so many people seeing so many issues with this. Scouts is about the boys... and when 1 boy is ready to quit because of an issue with their DL you all just want the boy to quit? Sure if there was another den for him to go to I would've suggested that, if we had another pack nearby I'd suggest that. But with those options out, I did what I felt was best for this one scout. And if there were another then I'd do the same for them too if needed done.

 

I look at my son now and remember when he started as a Tiger and how he is now as Life Scout and I know so much of how well he has grown into a good young man is due to scouting. I'd hate to see that taken from anyone

[evmori]

Moose - you're basically right... for next few months he's going to be a lone scout.

 

This is wrong on so many levels and sends the message that, regardless of the reason, if you don't get along with your leader its OK to go outside the unit and find someone you do get along with. Bad form.

[moosetracker]

I don't see it as wrong, Unless you feel this Webelos scout is the soul person responsible for the bad relationship between Den Leader, Mother and Son and should be held accountable for it.

 

As far as you know it could be that the mother drives the DL up a wall, and she just doesn't want to deal with the family.. the DL statement of "I'm tired of dealing with THEM" rather then HIM kind of points to that.

 

It just may be the DL has taken a disliking to this family base on rumors and preconceved notions that no matter what they did, they would never change her mind.

 

Or it may just be that the boy ran threw her house, wrote on the walls, cut up her curtains, and peed on her rug..

 

But you just don't know. What you do know is that the DL doesn't want to deal with the scout, not just that the scout does not like the DL.. That makes for an uncomfortable atmousphere for the boy if he is not being treated equally and fairly with the other boys.

 

My family changed troops 3 times until we found one that was a good fit. It wasn't a one on one dislike, but definately we were not in agreement with how others chose to run the troop. We have counseled others in the forum to find new troops, or if they have the power to fire CM's or SM's or CC's.. Due to personality conflicts.

 

Why is it so wrong for this boy to have the same rights?

 

 

[evmori]

To me, this is an end run to get this kid's requirements completed. The problem could be the kid or the parents or whatever. End-running requirements is wrong.