The leaders kid

[83Eagle]

It's not what you're thinking...

 

I'm the Bear DL and we have very active parents, to the point where it's rare that a parent will not stay for the entire meeting. Which is a good thing.

 

However, that means when I've introduced and explained an activity and am darting around the room to see if every parent/son combo has any problems, it means my son is the only one who doesn't have a parent sitting at the table with him!

 

Now, I've talked to him about this and he has no complaints. Also he's usually worked through the activity with me anyway to give it a test before the meeting. But, I'm conscious of it and I don't know if he might not be telling me it bothers him because of pride, whatever.

 

Any thoughts/ideas?

[OwntheNight]

Where is your ADL and/or Den Chief during these meetings? Please don't tell us your trying to be a one man band in this orchestra.

 

Seriously, It sounds like you have a dedicated bunch of parents who are active and involved with their son's at the den meeting. It might be time to have a conversation with 1 or 2 of them about stepping up to an ADL role, or maybe helping out with den meetings and then later you can pull the ol' "Well since you're helping out, what do you think about putting the uniform on?" I have 2 excellent ADL's and a Den Chief. Both of them came to me at the beginning of the year and wanted to take a bigger role during den meetings. We all agreed to take 1 meeting a month to cover the activities in the monthly program and resource guide. This has been a blessing, because I can spend more time with Wolfson, or I can spend more time with parents who have questions or just getting to know them on a more personal level.

 

Ask your Cubmaster to talk to a troop about getting a Den Chief in there to help out with activities and the meeting itself. Those Den Chiefs are a great resource and are a huge influence on your Bears.

 

I was in your shoes with Scoutson when he was a Bear. Trying to help all the boys, answer parents' questions, etc.. My son never said to me that he was unhappy that I didn't spend as much time with him. In fact it was the opposite, he was excited to have his Dad as the DL. But, there were times when he just wasn't interested in going to meetings. ( Can't/Won't find his uniform, milling about the house trying to cause an argument with me to not take him)It took me about a year to figure those signs out. I soon got that burnout feeling and began to resent Scouting for the stress it was causing me. Needless to say I found a Pack with many DL's and ADL's in the dens, and was able to help out as needed and with lots of support around me to rekindle my fire for Scouting. I won't let that happen to Wolfson now, and our time together is more memorable because of the extra help I get.

 

Good Luck, and Have Fun

[CPAMom]

When my husband led Bears, there was no assistant, other than me. Den Chiefs have never been part of our pack. Our son has had such an advantage of being the den leader's son. The run thru at home before a meeting means he is getting scout tutoring. He would go into those meetings with pride because he knew the stuff before it was taught. He knew the skits and songs before anyone else.

[83Eagle]

We have an ADL but are not (yet) using Den Chiefs. (They've never been part of the pack/troop structure...one thing at a time...) I am also the CM.

 

I think it's precisely because we have such strong parental involvement that this thought has crept into my head. Because if we do an individual craft-type activity--say, building tool boxes--it's not like it's just me and the ADL working with 12 boys. Instead we have 12 boys and 12 parents. However, that also means that each boy is working with a parent, except for me who tends to be flitting around the room to answer questions and whatnot.

 

I'm guessing I'm creating a problem in my mind that doesn't exist and I should take my son at his word, and also be thankful for the high level of parental involvement. And maybe just sit down and let the boys figure stuff out.

[Eagle92]

Yep being the LK can be difficult. After this past weekend of camping onthe council level and talking to my son and wife, it can be very stressful for the family. Why I can't be more than a DL at this time.

 

One of the things I've done to help my son is that I work with him all the time. Sometimes stuff we do at meetings is justa review with him. Heck sometimes he is helping the other cubs and parents.

 

One of the nice things is that all the parents help each other with my group. that helps tremendously.

[John-in-KC]

First, I'm going to challenge you: Why 1/1 at every unit meeting? This isn't Tiger Cubs ... the kids can and should (ages and stages) be weaning away a little bit from Mom/Dad.

 

Second, those who've seen me here have heard me before on Den Chiefs: They are the greatest aid to recruiting a Troop will ever have. It's responsibility beyond their years. I'd encourage you to ask for them.

 

Since you can only charter in one position, you are the CM. You are ad hoc the Bear DL. You have direct contact support responsibilities to all the DLs, and some oversight responsibilities. Given the challenge of your Committee (elsewhere), I'd think about recruiting an ADL to help the rest of this school year, and to move up to DL for the Webelos year + ...

 

Good hunting.

[83Eagle]

>>First, I'm going to challenge you: Why 1/1 at every unit meeting? This isn't Tiger Cubs ... the kids can and should (ages and stages) be weaning away a little bit from Mom/Dad.

 

I dunno. I'd like to think it's because our den meetings are so fun that people like to stay. Maybe it's nothing more than that it doesn't pay for them to go home and come back after an hour. It's never been a requiement (past Tigers) but I let them know they're welcome to stay and they do, and I'm not going to change that because I think parental involvement is a good thing. All I know is that our Den has grown from 5 Tigers to 9 Wolf to 12 Bear and it's pretty darn unusual for older dens to pick up kids in our Pack, so we must be doing something right and I'm not going to discourage what's working.

 

Also, having the parents there doesn't mean the parents are doing things for the kids. For instance, we did the cooking achievement in the Den, and the boys pretty much prepared dinner and cookies for the adults. Now that was cool. So I suppose you can now point out that if the kids are doing more why am I worried about the leader's kid being ignored? I'm painting with a broad brush here and every activity is different.

 

As I mentioned above, we do have an ADL but, given my recent and unexpected need to take on CM, there is going to be a transition period.(This message has been edited by gotta run)

[ScoutNut]

There is no need to get defensive. No one said that you were doing something wrong. Parental involvement IS critical.

 

However everything we do in Cub Scouting should reflect the Purposes of Cub Scouting. One of those purposes is the preparation for Boy Scouts, and part of that preparation is fostering more independence in the Scouts.

 

This is something that you, as DL, and as CM, should keep in mind.

[83Eagle]

I wasn't being defensive. If you read the exchange you'll see that I was simply responding to "First, I'm going to challenge you: Why 1/1 at every unit meeting?" I'm just explaining the evolution of our particular Den. The parents know that their presence is not required because I tell them it isn't, but if they want to come to meetings, they are more than welcome. They are an asset to our program.

 

I do know the 10 purposes of Cub Scouting but I also know that "Family Involvement" runs throughout the methods for achieving them. I'm also reminded of that "adding machine tape" demonstration that I've seen and has been referenced here, about the short window left in which parents have to influence their sons. So rather than fret too much right now about the independence part with our group of 8-year olds, I instead feel our Den is blessed to have parents who want to be part of things--and I'm not talking about helicopter parents who are just there to micromanage what their kids do, but parents who enjoy spending time with their sons. What an awesome (in the literal sense of the word) situation, compared to the "absentee parent" complaints that exist in these threads.

 

Anyhoo, back on the original topic. The simple answer seems to be if it ain't broke don't fix it; everyone's happy, son says he's happy, stay the course. I'm the type that tries to anticipate problems before they happen but perhaps I'm making a problem that doesn't and won't exist.

[AKdenldr]

Sounds like the boys are very lucky to have their involved parents.

 

In another thread there was talk about how in BS adults work with all the boys and you can't tell who goes with who. As you think of moving that way,

 

How about trying a round robbin where adults are given stations and boys rotate in groups. Once it is up and running, you can step in once an a while and experience it with your son.

 

We did a lot of round robbin type meetings in our Wolf year. We had 8 boys that year and 3 stations at a time worked well. Very successful and the boys were very proud of their parent who was leading a station.

 

-- AK

[qwazse]

One thing that worked very well with my boys' dens, and I think it would work with yours, was each parent took a turn leading an activity.

 

You simply help the boys with opening (flags, pledge of allegiance, etc...), introduce the presenter for the meeting (Mr/Mrs X will show us activity Y), you sit with your boy (or in the back with the other parents, depending on the nature of activity Y) and then help with closing.

 

Advantages:

You get more chances to work with your child. (Or sit back and watch him!)

It may encourage your ADL to step up to DL, knowing that she can count on parents to support her efforts -- both in terms of being there and co-leading.

The boys get ready for a troop model where they pick up different skills from different people.

[beardad]

In our Pack, parental involvement is required. we are a "no drop off" pack and go as far as have all parents fill out an adult application "for adult helper"

 

not just tigers all levels up to Web 2. not saying they sit with there kids all meetings but they are there.

[83Eagle]

>>In our Pack, parental involvement is required. we are a "no drop off" pack and go as far as have all parents fill out an adult application "for adult helper"

 

Kudos to you. I always liked the saying that BSA does not stand for Baby Sitters of America.

 

The idea to have parents "man a station" is great and I can't believe I didn't think of it, particularly since we have acutally done that on past activities. Sometimes one can't see the forest for the trees!

[Scoutfish]

gotta,

 

I'm gonna put a different spin on what John-in-KC and Scoutnut said. Actually, I'm gonna say what they said, just with different words:

 

It's cool that the parents are still that active with their kids. It's not exactly what the program is trying to do...but it's not necessarily a detriment either.

 

But here's where things need to change- It is NOT your job to go around and explain things to each parent, so they can help their son!

 

It is your job to explain TO THE Bears what THEY are going to, or need to do. Then, IF they need further assistance, mom or dad can help out.

 

 

Again, parnets being involved is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not your job to work for, teach towards or assist the parents in the way you describe.

 

You are there to work with the boys. All of them and equally.

 

Now, what I'd do is pick one or two of the most all around go getter parents and see about getting them registered and signed up as ADL's.

 

Then, if any scout has problems or needs help..or sigh...if a parent doesn't get it, the ADL can go over it with them - leaving you free to continue working with the boys!

 

 

Make sense ?

[83Eagle]

Scoutfish--

 

Yeah it makes sense. We do have an ADL (who may be technically the DL since I am the new CM), in case I didn't mention it.

 

What you outline pretty much describes our meeting last night. We were doing the tool box building activity and I have a carptenter in the den who I put in charge of the project.

 

My ADL (his first meeting) was great in stepping up and doing just what needed to be done and when (which is why I picked him). We also have a designated parent to be in charge of recording advancements, and one to be in charge of taking pictures for the Den scrapbook. After announcements I simply turned the meeting over to the carpenter-dad and let him run with it. He gave the general plan and turned the boys over with a bunch of lumber and tools and the parents (who were all there again) helped as needed. There's a wide range of physical skill differences at that age so some needed more help with the mechancial aspects. (The best part about having 12 parents there was that cleanup was super fast--and it was a lot of sawdust!)

 

My son? Well, I asked if he needed help and he said "nah, I got it," so disappeared to take care of Important Leader Stuff. When he got stuck he flagged down...NOT me but the older son of our carpenter-dad. :-) (Who is not a Scout...but I REALLY see the benefit of Den Chiefs based on that episode.) In the end, my son's tool box ended up a little lumpy and crooked but he thinks it's perfect and so do I.

 

So to answer the original question myself--take my son at his word, step back and let others take charge, and people will rise to your expectations of them.

 

Oh yeah, and get a Den Chief!