Being Mr. No at my first committee meeting

[Basementdweller]

So if it is by the book

 

 

Then why was a den leader at the committee meeting???????

 

 

 

http://old.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-240.pdf

 

 

One per person in scouting right??????? cough cough

[Scoutfish]

If it involves saftey of my son or any other scout...I'll be "Mr.No" in a heart beat.

 

Last spring, it was brought up during a pack family camping planning meeting about getting some canoes and renting them during the campout. Somebody asked if Tigers were able to do it. I looked it up, and found out that NO Cub Scouts can do canoeing unless at a council/ district run camp/event.

 

So they decided to pass around a hat, let only those who wanted to do it pay for it, and they had to :

1) Sign a release form agreeing that the pack, disytrict,council and camp were not responcible for anything

2) That it was not a pack/council/district event

3) That a parent had to be with their scout while in the canoe.

 

Everybody decided it was ok then in that respect. They voted and passed it.

 

I'll be honest - I voted for it too...as long as it was donre tat way.

 

But it only took a day for me to have second thoughts about it.

 

Seems like we were sending the message to the cubs that you had to follow the rules..UNLESS you really, really wanted to do it and you found a loophole around it.

 

So much for trustworthy, honesty, loyal, and doing our best to do the right thing.

 

So I made my feelings felt about it. By trhe time it was all said and done, two people ( former DL and his wife) paid for 4 canoes for 4 hours.

 

Nobody else went. That DL and his wife did take their den to the lake under the guise of it being a den activity, but that backfired when the parents said no!

 

Anyways, point is, I stood up and stood my ground. I figured I'd be the black sheep for it, but turns out alot of the other people agreed with me, but they didn't want to be Mr.No!

[Scoutfish]

Oh, I want to mention something else.......

 

When our former CM approached me about being the new CM this year, she said my taking a stand about this issue was one of the reasons she thought I'd be a great CM.

 

There are times you make concessions and compromises. But there are times you do not!

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah clemlaw, I think it's just fine to speak up politely about safety issues, eh? Yeh never want to discourage anybody from raising a safety question.

 

That having been said, there are all kinds of ways to make a pool rental work great for a pack of cub scouts. As others have mentioned, most pool rentals come with lifeguard support and markers between shallow and deep ends, so you're covered in terms of supervision and areas. Then yeh just need to do basic swim checks at the start of the event, and teach the boys the buddy system. If yeh have a really big pack, appoint a few parents as extra lookouts to supplement the life guards, and go have fun.

 

That's not being "Mr. No.", eh? That's being Mr. "Sounds great, let's do it right!"

 

As for the insurance thing, insurance has nothing to do with SSD. It's based on an insurance contract. Just like your auto insurance, BSA insurance covers you even if you speed, deliberately run an red light, or otherwise make ordinary mistakes or bad decisions. So while it seems like it makes your argument more effective to "blame the bean counters", in actual fact you're not being honest. And a Scout is always Trustworthy, eh? Keeping kids safe is a better argument than insurance anyways .

 

Now, as ScoutFish points out, parents can always assume personal responsibility for their boys and do whatever they want with 'em, eh? So they can leave your scout event to go swim in the lake without SSD and you have no business telling 'em they can't. But at your scout event, they should agree to follow and abide by the program policies and procedures.

 

Beavah

 

 

[clemlaw]

>>>>That's not being "Mr. No.", eh? That's being Mr. "Sounds great, let's do it right!

[ScoutNut]

>>>>"So if it is by the book

Then why was a den leader at the committee meeting???????"

[clemlaw]

Remember, I'm a newbie after 40 years absence from the world of Cub Scouts. (Back then, we were "square".) I actually have no idea whether I was at the Committee Meeting or the Monthly Pack Leaders Planning Meeting or something else. There were no votes taken, so I wasn't instructed about whether or not I was allowed to vote. They asked me to come, and I filled them in on what the Tigers were up to.

 

But even if there were a rule to the contrary, if another den leader had said that their skit this month was going to be William Tell, and they would be shooting apples of the heads of other Cub Scouts with real arrows, I probably would have chimed in and said that I thought there might be something in the G2SS about that, and they might want to take a look.

[ScoutNut]

Committee Meeting, and the Pack Leaders Meeting, are the same thing.

 

All of the Pack's registered Scouters should attend this monthly planning meeting. That includes the CC, CM, COR, Committee Members, and Den Leaders.

[moosetracker]

Since you are a den Leader, you being at the committee meeting (Planning meeting) is encouraged and appreciated. You can inform them what you are doing, you learn what the plans are for the next pack meeting or an event, and can plan for your den to be part of a skit, or do some appropriate craft for it.

 

When a vote is taken unfortunately the CM & DL don't get a vote, but most committees worth their grain of salt, will listen to the CM & DL's who will speak up about how they feel it will effect them positively or negatively. So in my experience any votes in our committee are majorly effected by the SM & ASM (I was most recently in a troop).

 

[acco40]

Not to open (again) a new can of worms but there are some interesting threads in the archives about the issue of "voting" at Pack and Troop committee meetings.

 

Pack committee meetings are open to all parents - registered and non-registered. Now, being "open" doesn't mean any parent should feel they can attend and influence the meeting.

[Beavah]

Pack committee meetings are open to all parents - registered and non-registered

 

Usually. Dependin' on da pack or CO and how the committee is set up and what the topic is. Just like "voting", eh? Often packs in particular let all parents participate (including make proposals and vote), even ex officio members like the CM, ACM, or DL.

 

There is no requirement about how committees are structured or how they make decisions. That's left to each CO and committee.

 

B

[Basementdweller]

My bad on the link.

 

You are correct in that All BSA meeting are open to everyone. But Den Leaders don't have any influence and should not have voting rights at the committee level. The CM is Program and should represent their views to the committee.

 

The committee should be stable with experienced leaders guiding the Pack, Packs get in trouble when they have inexperienced leadership and no mentoring.

 

 

Taking the kids swimming is a great idea, they just need to rent a pool that provides life guards is all. no big deal.

 

 

[The Blancmange]

 

You are correct in that All BSA meeting are open to everyone.

They are? Only if youth are present.  I can think of several situations where it would be appropriate, probably preferable, that a a committee meet in private - disciplinary issues that have been elevated to the committee level, sensitive issues regarding leaders (i.e. removal), secret fundraising planning so as to not tip off neighboring troops, etc (Hope everyone sees the sarcasm in the last example).

Our comittee discusses many issues via email. The person who invented the "reply to all" function was a genius. Are we violating the BSA Open Meetings Act? Are we required to publish notice of meetings and proposed agandas?

[Beavah]

Yah, there's no requirement that committee meetings (or any adult meetings) be open. Only youth activities have to be open (where practical) to observation, not participation. That "no secret society" rule is a very limited one, eh? It doesn't mean dad automatically gets to go to Philmont, or go boating without a swim check, or to join in his son's EBOR.

 

Council exec committee and some EB meetings are closed, and it's entirely the CO and Committee's discretion on whether a meeting should be open or how the committee should be constituted. Discipline, adult leadership issues, financial review of individual accounts and campership awards are all things that should probably be closed.

 

Aside from those issues, most committees run fairly "open", and many if not most let unit leaders and assistant unit leaders and den leaders have a voice and a vote. Neither, of course, are required.

 

Beavah

[clemlaw]

>>>>>>>>The committee should be stable with experienced leaders guiding the Pack, Packs get in trouble when they have inexperienced leadership and no mentoring.

 

 

Taking the kids swimming is a great idea, they just need to rent a pool that provides life guards is all. no big deal.